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Dhoni Rages Against The Dying Light - An IPL Roundup
The ongoing IPL season has elicited a fervent discourse among hosts Benny and Mayank, who engage with special guest Ben Brettell to delve into the intricacies of the tournament. A salient point of discussion revolves around the contentious issue of pitch preparation and its implications for teams seeking home advantage. The hosts explore the contrasting strategies employed by various franchises, mainly the dissatisfaction expressed by teams such as Chennai Super Kings and Kolkata Knight Riders regarding their curators' decisions. Furthermore, they highlight standout performances from players such as Sai Sudarshan and Mohammed Siraj, illuminating the evolving dynamics of the league. As the conversation unfolds, the trio contemplates the broader ramifications of these developments on team strategies and the overall competitive landscape of IPL 2025.
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Transcript
Hello and welcome to the Last Wicket.
Speaker A:I'm your host, Benny.
Speaker A:Thank you for joining us.
Speaker A:Once again, I'm joined by my co host Mayank.
Speaker A:Hey, Mike.
Speaker B:Hey everyone.
Speaker A:And special guest, Ben Bretel.
Speaker A:He also has a substack frickinspo by Ben Bretel.
Speaker A:We don't usually have guests who share the first name, so I'm really excited to speak with another Ben.
Speaker A:Actually, do you go by Ben or Benny?
Speaker A:Like what do you go by your first name?
Speaker C:Some of my friends call me Benny, but nicely Ben.
Speaker A:Okay, well, for the purpose of this conversation, so there's no confusion, you take Ben and I'll go with Benny.
Speaker C:You take Benny.
Speaker A:So Ben.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Thank you for joining us on the Last Wicket.
Speaker C:Absolute pleasure, thanks for having me.
Speaker A:Yeah, so as you know, we're going to be talking about the IPL and the second round of the ipl, but before we get into all of that, why don't you just quickly, you know, introduce yourself because to be very honest, I never heard of you till about two days ago.
Speaker A:But so there might be listeners like me.
Speaker A:So why don't you.
Speaker A:Yeah, just a quick introduction about yourself and your substack.
Speaker C:Yeah, so only really started on Substack in, in February, so it's relatively new for me.
Speaker C:So yeah, I figured I'd spend a lot of time thinking about the game so I might as well write it down and yeah, just started writing my thoughts down and publishing it and yeah, here we are.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:And You've got about 60 subscribers so far, so early days.
Speaker C:But yeah, so I'd love more so if you want to check it out.
Speaker A:No, I was just going to ask what attracted you to the IPL and writing about the ipl, I mean, it's.
Speaker C:Just an extension of a lifelong love of cricket really.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:Yeah, been into cricket for longer than I can remember, certainly from kind of six or seven years old.
Speaker C:And so yeah, all forms, all forms of cricket are interesting.
Speaker C:But yeah, the IPL was obviously the, the pinnacle kind of franchise league, the biggest franchise league going.
Speaker C:It's probably as far as the T20 game goes, it's, it's probably more important than, than the international format really.
Speaker C:So yeah, it's, you know, it's exciting.
Speaker C:Full stadiums, massive stadiums, best players in the world.
Speaker C:It's a great tournament.
Speaker A:Agreed.
Speaker A:I agree.
Speaker A:So obviously we're going to talk about the ongoing season and the teams and the players.
Speaker A:So you have had some good articles up on your substack and so for our listeners, do make sure to check out the link that we include in the show notes to check out Ben's writings.
Speaker B:All right, we'll get into the IPL and all the action in the past week.
Speaker B:One of the things that caught my attention was the curators and the pitches.
Speaker B:Now this is really interesting because, you know, if you look at international cricket, every team you know is making pitches that suit them, whether that's T20s, whether that's one days, particularly in Test cricket, where pitches have in the recent past been super bowling friendly.
Speaker B:And to me, you know, that's just making things to your advantage.
Speaker B:So I think that's pretty fair.
Speaker B:But the IPL has gone a different direction.
Speaker B:So Chennai and Kolkata, for example, have said that, you know, they're frustrated with their curators who are not listening to or following the team's strength.
Speaker B:LSG Lucknow's assistant coach Zaheer Khan also made a similar comment for one of their games.
Speaker B:I think the only team that I have heard so far say that they were able to manage, you know, they were able to work with the curator was the Gujarat Titans.
Speaker B:So thoughts on this, Ben?
Speaker B:How do you think this whole dynamic is playing out?
Speaker B:And do you even think this makes sense?
Speaker B:Like, why would you not want to have the home stadium and home curator work with the franchise?
Speaker C:Yeah, I think it's been a bit confusing so far this year, and there's definitely been some mixed messages.
Speaker C:I think the first thing I would say, and you alluded to this already, is that home advantage has always been part of cricket to some extent, whether that's kind of international cricket or franchise cricket or domestic cricket.
Speaker C:It's always been an option for the home team to produce a pitch which suits their players and the makeup of their side.
Speaker C:And I think as a cricket fan, what we want to see is a variety of pitches and a variety of conditions, because it's that variety that makes the game so compelling.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So it's interesting that the BCCI came up with this.
Speaker C:This rule that.
Speaker C:That said that the.
Speaker C:The franchise would have no impact or influence over what pitch got prepared.
Speaker C:And yeah, I read Stephen Fleming's comments about CSK having no home advantage for any time.
Speaker C:He said anytime during the last two years, though, you know, based looking at last year's results, I'm not sure I agree with him there, but I suppose it begs the question that if he doesn't think there's any home advantage there, then why does their team still revolve so heavily around spin and the ability to restrict teams and take wickets with spin in the middle of a game?
Speaker C:Like if you know the pitches aren't going to be prepared to suit that, why is that still your strategy?
Speaker C:Why is that?
Speaker C:Why have you gone through with that at the auction if, if you don't think there's a home advantage?
Speaker C:And yeah, I saw the slightly tongue in cheek comments from Zahir Khan from LSG saying it looked like the, the pitch for Tuesday's game had been pre by Punjab King's curator rather than their own.
Speaker C:Which yeah, I think there's a bit of mind games going on there, to be honest.
Speaker C:You know, maybe, maybe the coaches are trying to kind of indirectly put pressure on the curators to, to play ball and, and, and do what they want.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think the other aspect of this is, you know, the rules came out and that they said as you, as you alluded to it, that the team should not or the franchise should not have any influence on it.
Speaker B:But I haven't seen anything about Gujarat Titans being fined or anything at all.
Speaker B:So are the rules even being implemented?
Speaker B:That's the other aspect which confuses me and I mean it's not just about the pitch.
Speaker B:To me, like this is the classic way the BCCI operates where IPL is their most valuable product.
Speaker B:And if you compare it to the Premier League in England or NBA in the US you will see that a lot of attention is paid to every single little, you know, tweak to the rules and all of that and they're fiercely debated.
Speaker B:But in the ipl, they, they come up with rules last minute and just throw them out there.
Speaker B:The whole rule around the, a different ball being used after the 11th over to counterdue it came so last minute.
Speaker B:I mean that in my two days.
Speaker C:Before the, two days before the tournament started, wasn't it?
Speaker B:Exactly, exactly.
Speaker B:So like to me like that makes spinners a lot more effective in the second half of the innings and that would really change the strategy.
Speaker B:You would go in, you know, with, into the, into the auction.
Speaker B:So that whole, I guess just the way things happen with the bcci, it's not a surprise, but it's just disappointing considering how valuable the IPL is.
Speaker B:And you know, to your point, it's the biggest league, it's got so many great talents that on display that it's a little disappointing that we don't try to make the best out of that.
Speaker C:Yeah, I think if you're, if you're gonna have rule changes, they need to be before the auction so teams can adjust their strategy.
Speaker C:But I guess like with this pitch issue, if the teams genuinely don't know what pitch they're going to get anymore, then they kind of just need to go back to doing things the old fashioned way.
Speaker C:Pick a balanced team that can adjust to all conditions and, you know, adjust their strategy during the game depending on what they, what they see in the pitch.
Speaker C:And I think also, like, the impact player rule allows for a certain amount of adjustment on the fly as well.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:So if it's, yeah, if it's spinning more than expected, they, they're, they're totally free to bring in a spinner as their, as their impact player.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I also think with regards to the pitch discussion, ultimately it's a power struggle right.
Speaker A:Between the hosting associations and the franchises because the franchise, those grounds are not exclusively, they don't belong exclusively to the franchise.
Speaker A:I feel a part of it is just the, the cricket board of that particular association or the stadium.
Speaker A:You know, they want to say, hey, you might be playing the game here, but this is our ground and we are going to do, we're going to do it the way we want.
Speaker A:And I think the franchise is now having, I mean, the IPL has been around for 18 years now.
Speaker A:So I get where someone like Stephen Fleming and CSK think, hey, we've been playing here for 18 years.
Speaker A:Let's have the kind of conditions that we want and what will help our team.
Speaker A:And I can see where, you know, the Tem Cricket association are like, hold on, this is our ground.
Speaker A:Still, you might, you're just, you're just like renting this out for the few months that you're playing here.
Speaker A:And I think that's where it comes in.
Speaker A:And I think it also comes down to the individual, like ego clashes, which, you know, I'm sure it's not strange in any country, but especially in a country like India, all those things will add up and that's why we're talking about this now.
Speaker A:So honestly, I don't, I agree with Ben in that, you know, just like how it is in international cricket, hosting countries or home countries, home teams should have advantages.
Speaker A:Like if you go to countries like Australia and South Africa, you expect bouncy pitches.
Speaker A:Well, it's another matter if it still exists today.
Speaker A:But you know, traditionally that's what we expect.
Speaker A:When you go to Australia and South Africa, you expect bounce.
Speaker A:You go to England and New Zealand, you expect seeming conditions and in countries like India, you expect turn.
Speaker A:So all of these adds up to the versatility and players should enjoy playing in those kind of conditions.
Speaker A:And that's what we expect in the IPL as Well, that you go to Chennai and you expect like a close.
Speaker A:You know, it might be a low scoring game, but it could be more entertaining than some of those 200, 250 plus games.
Speaker A:So there should be variety.
Speaker A:You don't want every pitch to be the same and then those pitches not helping the home team because then it just robs the charm, you know, not just for the teams, but for the supporting fans.
Speaker A:And I'm not saying this just because my team, csk are struggling a little bit this year.
Speaker C:Yeah, I completely agree.
Speaker C:Is that it's that variety that, that makes the sport what it is.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:I think it'd be a shame if, you know, if everything was played on a Hyderabad road where.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:250S of par score then robbing the game of, of a lot of the nuance.
Speaker C:That is why we all love it so.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker C:And I think one more thing to add on this is that I think probably almost a bigger part of home advantage is the fans and the fans getting behind the team, which is, you know, especially in the IPL when the grounds are all full and that, you know, the pit, the pitch is only one part of the, the home advantage jigsaw.
Speaker C:The, the fans are probably at least as important.
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:And yeah, and I think the power struggle that Benny alluded to that.
Speaker B:I think we've seen that play out in the 100 as well where you know, a franchise would be working closely with two to three different counties and then there's that power struggle there too.
Speaker B:So at least in India's case, like in the IPL's case rather, you know, most of these franchises are generally working with one home ground.
Speaker B:I think Punjab is probably the one exception where they're going to two places.
Speaker B:But I know there are some games in Guwahati as well.
Speaker B:So obviously, I think as the league matures and I have no idea if it'll really happen, but we've, we've.
Speaker B:I think people have talked about the league maturing and going away from auctions, but they just get so many eyeballs with the auction that I don't think they're going to do that.
Speaker B:But yeah, I do think over time they're going to realize the importance of home advantage in every way, whether it's the pitch, whether it's the fans and a mature league.
Speaker B:You would expect that to happen sooner rather than later, but we'll see.
Speaker A:That's very optimistic.
Speaker B:I, I don't disagree.
Speaker B:Moving on.
Speaker B:So let's talk about the last week or so of matches.
Speaker B:Since we recorded, I think it was last Tuesday when we talked, Benny and I.
Speaker B:And Benny, maybe I'll go to you first.
Speaker B:Who has been the standout performer or performers during this last week or so?
Speaker C:I think, I think there's been a few in the last week actually.
Speaker C:I think that the first one I, I want to mention is Sai Sudarsen from Gujarat Titans.
Speaker C:Mentioned him a few times on, on Substack now.
Speaker C:But he, he's pretty much a standout.
Speaker C:I think like a lot of the talk about that batting lineups revolved around Shipman Gill and, and Joss Butler which you know, is understandable.
Speaker C:But it's Siddharth that's kind of almost stolen the show.
Speaker C:I think he's, you know, top scored in the, in the first two games.
Speaker C:First one when they just fell short against Punjab and then kind of match winning 63, I think it was against Mumbai Indians.
Speaker C:And you know, I think, I think he looks like the complete package to me.
Speaker C:He's, he's comfortable against pace, he's comfortable against spin.
Speaker C:He's only 23.
Speaker C:And yeah, he, he scored.
Speaker C:I think he fell just short of 50 in Wednesday's win against RCB.
Speaker C:And yeah, I think he's, you just can't ask for more from a 23 year old playing alongside Gill and Butler.
Speaker C:He's kind of outscoring both of them which is quite an achievement.
Speaker A:He's a very orthodox, compact batsman who I think will do a lot better in the longer formats than in T20s.
Speaker A:I mean, the fact that he's doing well in the IPL is like a testament to his hard work.
Speaker A:And I still hear people griping about his strike grade and his lack of strength when he's trying to go for the big shots.
Speaker A:But I think if he just plays naturally, he's still getting the runs, he's still performing to his role.
Speaker A:But I'm more excited about his potential in longer forms.
Speaker A:I hope he gets.
Speaker A:I know there's so much competition, you know, in the Test format and Even like the ODIs for the Indian team.
Speaker A:But I would love it if he got a chance because he just looks very solid and he can only get better and better.
Speaker C:Yeah, he seems to have a nice defensive technique as well as the attacking shots and yeah, I'd love to see him in a Test match whether, whether or not he'll, he'll ever break into that side or, or when, I don't know.
Speaker C:But yeah, I guess there could be some, some spots opening up at some point soon with a few retirements but that's probably a topic for another episode.
Speaker A:Yep, absolutely.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:What I found interesting is he was reversing.
Speaker B:Not reversing.
Speaker B:What is it called?
Speaker B:The dill scoop.
Speaker B:The wanna be above the wicketkeeper's head.
Speaker B:Josh Hazelwood.
Speaker B:That is definitely not something I had expected to see coming from him.
Speaker A:But what I think.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And I think what I've Again, this is really early in the season.
Speaker B:So one but.
Speaker B:So we'll see if this actually stays true towards all the way to the end.
Speaker B:But so far, Gil has scored a larger percentage of boundaries in the power play than he did in the previous session.
Speaker B:So it's very interesting that it seems like he's okay being the more risk taker and giving that role to Sai Sedarshan to be the accumulator, even if it takes a few more balls.
Speaker B:And that's not to say that he's been necessarily slow, but he's been able to catch up on most occasions even if he takes a few balls.
Speaker B:So, yeah, it's an interesting role dynamic because we have two really young players, probably both wanting to be amongst the orange gap.
Speaker B:But yeah, it seems like Gil has said I'm going to be the more attacking batsman.
Speaker B:That's been an improvement and possibly that's also a reason for him to do that is he's not in the T20 India squad and he's seen the likes of Abhishek Sharma and others go out there and smack from ball one.
Speaker B:So maybe that might be another factor playing into the way Guild's T20 game is evolving.
Speaker B:But definitely agree has done a really great job in his role.
Speaker B:Who else did you did you think caught your attention?
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:I think, you know, not.
Speaker C:Not to just talk about Gujarat Titans here, but Mohammed Siraj was outstanding against, you know, you can see he was really fired up against RCB's former team and he just bowled really fast and really straight and just hit that good length.
Speaker C:And yeah, saw that the RCB batsman had a control percentage of 50 against him in the power play, which is, you know, that's.
Speaker C:That's good bowling.
Speaker C:And yeah, I think it's kind of interesting in a way from what I've noticed so far this season actually is see, seems like for in previous years, T20 fast bowling has all been about kind of variations and slower balls and that kind of stuff.
Speaker C:And you know, why Dorcas and kind of innovation and kind of line and length just gets smashed to the boundary.
Speaker C:But this year you've seen test match bowlers taking wickets with test match line and lengths in the power play, I think it's been really interesting.
Speaker C:You've got Siraj Stark, even, even Joffer Archer finally got it together in his last.
Speaker C:Have been smashed all over the park previously.
Speaker C:Yeah, I wondered what you guys make of that.
Speaker C:Seems like there's been a bit of a shift in, in fast bowling this year.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think it's, I think it's part of Gujarat's strategy because if you look at their pesadak, it's.
Speaker B:It's got Prasad, Krishna Sant, you know, none of them are, I mean, I wouldn't say Ishant or Prasad are anywhere close to the best T20 bowlers India has, but they have the ability to extract bounce and they've said our home ground has.
Speaker B:You know, that pitch has something for the pacers.
Speaker B:Siraj did really well against Bombay, against Mumbai as well.
Speaker B:That wicket of Rohit Sharma was a beautiful delivery.
Speaker B:So yeah, they've, they've played to that strength.
Speaker B:And I think it's, it's not the only team for sure who is thinking about it because if you look at Mumbai Indians as well, they bought, brought back Trent Bolt this auction and then they got Deepak Chahar as well.
Speaker B:Both really good new ball bowlers.
Speaker B:So I think more and more teams are recognizing that, you know, obviously having deep batting is really important to go hard and all of that is important and.
Speaker B:But at the same time, early wickets is a great way to break the chase or you know, if the opposition is setting up a total, just really great way to do that.
Speaker B:Which is why a lot of teams have started focusing on power play wickets.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's definitely a step in a slightly different direction which I think some teams have tried.
Speaker B:I know in the PSL there have been teams which are more bowling heavy or more, you know, that, that sort of a team which relies more on bowlers than batters.
Speaker B:Not saying Gujarat or Mumbai are either of that type of teams, but at least they're starting to try to balance that out a little bit.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's, it's interesting.
Speaker C:I mean I, yeah, I think Gujarat pre tournament, I thought they were more of a bowling team than a, than a batting team.
Speaker C:But yeah, the have concerns about their, their middle order potentially.
Speaker C:But you know, if the, the top three keep firing, then maybe they don't need a middle order.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, I was trying to look up who the bowling coach is for the Titans, but saw a bunch of names but I'm not sure which one of them is.
Speaker A:I don't know Obviously Ashes being a bowler and the head coach, I mean when you talk about players like Prasit Krishna s like they're not the first name to think of when it comes to best T20 bowlers in India, but the fact that they're doing well and they're executing what's clearly well thought out, well planned out strategies.
Speaker A:I think we got to give credit to the coaches here because they're obviously doing a good job of working with these players because it's not just the players and their performances on the field.
Speaker A:It's also these, you know, backroom staff who are really working with these players to effectively carry out the plan on the field.
Speaker C:And I think the amount of data that goes into that those plans now is ridiculous that I've worked out all the matchups against all the different batsmen and exactly where to bowl and where their control percentage is lowest and where their strike rate's lowest and yeah, it's interesting to see them executing those plans.
Speaker C:I think obviously another one we haven't talked about yet is Mitchell Stark taking five wickets against Sunrises.
Speaker C:And I think, you know, that that power play wickets thing is, is clearly a plan against Sunrises.
Speaker C:It's been been done a few times now.
Speaker C:You know, they've got this super aggressive top order with, with Travis Head and Abhishek and then Class and coming in at five and, and you know, the best, the best way to contain that is just get them out.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker A:Yeah, it's almost like not to jump topics but you know, this batting approach of Sunrises has about.
Speaker A:It reminds me a lot of basball.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:It's this approach of let's, let's just go for it, forget the naysayers, just go hell for leather and see where it takes.
Speaker A:And you know what, it worked.
Speaker A:It worked really well for them last year and this year they got a good start.
Speaker A:You know, the first game, you know, scoring a mammoth total.
Speaker A:Fell off a little bit in the last two.
Speaker A:But again it's a long way to go.
Speaker A:But yes, that does speak to, you know, teams really have to think about how to contain these kind of batters.
Speaker A:And so there's been success against, you know, we initially thought this is going to be another season where we're going to see a lot of high scores but honestly we haven't had that many.
Speaker A:And so I think bowlers are finding ways, bowlers and the coaches are finding ways to contain these explosive players.
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean particularly after that first game you just thought, you know, here, here we go again.
Speaker C:When are they going to score 300?
Speaker C:This is.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:When's this going to stop?
Speaker C:You know?
Speaker C:You know, since then they've kind of failed three times and, you know, I just wonder whether teams have kind started to work them out a bit and bow to a.
Speaker C:Bow to a plan.
Speaker C:Notice KKR bowled noticeably fuller to them this week with the, with the new ball.
Speaker C:I think trying to make the most of any swing that was on offer in the first couple of overs.
Speaker C:And I think, you know, maybe, maybe last year teams felt they needed to bowl kind of defensive lengths against Sunrises, you know, back of a length to just contain the runs.
Speaker C:But yeah, I think if you bowl short to Travis Head, he's just going to whack you into the stands.
Speaker C:So you might, you might as well try and nick him off in the first couple of overs and, and then you don't have to worry about him.
Speaker B:Well, Benny, I was gonna say I wanted to go to you now.
Speaker B:Any other performances you want to highlight?
Speaker A:Well, speaking about whacking the ball into the stance, I was really, really happy for Joss Butler, you know, in the match against rcb Horror start dropping that catch of Phil Soldier.
Speaker A:I, I remember watching it.
Speaker A:I watched the highlights for the game and I had read earlier, like from social media, like, he had dropped this very simple catch and he was very embarrassed about it.
Speaker A:And I watched the highlights and I was like, you should be embarrassed about that.
Speaker A:That has, that came straight to you and not even like too fast.
Speaker A:So to see him, especially after all the struggles recently, you know, with England, you know, leaving his captaincy and, you know, England's results not going in their favor and, you know, just Butler is the kind of player that I think when he's good, he's really good.
Speaker A:It doesn't seem like there are many better players around when he's good, but when he's bad, he's like one of those players that you, you wonder, like, does he know how to hold a bat?
Speaker A:Because he just like, goes to the other extreme.
Speaker A:He looks very out of confidence and he just looks miserable.
Speaker A:And so for a player like him who seems like, generally like, he's one of the nicest people around, everybody likes him.
Speaker A:For him to play the kind of innings that he did was return to, like, this is the people, this is the person that, you know, people like to call Joss the boss, because when he's in full flow like that, it's just a treat to watch.
Speaker A:He makes it look so easy.
Speaker A:The, the balls go further and further away they go higher and higher and seemed to be enjoying himself towards the end, which is really pleasing to watch.
Speaker A:And so for me, purely from a fan perspective and not even like, okay, he's not playing for my team and none of those thoughts, it was just like purely as a neutral, just watching him bat, it was just, it just was a good reminder to people who are all, you know, you're probably looking at the newer, the younger stars in the making and all of those.
Speaker A:But then Joss just quickly sense reminded, hey, I'm still around.
Speaker A:I'm still one of the better batters in this format.
Speaker A:So for me, he, he really stood out in this, in this round of games.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's good, it's good to see him get his flow back.
Speaker C:I think it's, you know, and as an England supporter, obviously nice to see him kind of shake off all the troubles of, you know, the Champions Trophy and kind of move on and hopefully comes back and scores a ton of runs for England and hopefully with the.
Speaker A:Captaincy off, hopefully, you know, he is able to bring his, you know, the same game in England colors.
Speaker C:What worked for Joe Root in the Test side, didn't it?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Since he gave up the captaincy.
Speaker B:So, yeah, one thing I'll, I'll say and I'm going to take us away from gt.
Speaker B:I feel like we've talked about too many GT performances but I think the couple of people who definitely caught my attention and I love watching the IPL for all the youngsters because you know, all these years I've don't have, I still don't have a team like Benny does to support.
Speaker B:So I still support like whatever youngster I like.
Speaker B:And two that have got my attention.
Speaker B:Well, one who's got my attention.
Speaker B:This IPL is, you know, was a performance today by Namandeer.
Speaker B:He's somebody who's like came up and became popular in, in the Sharia Punjab T20 tournament, domestic tournament and believe he was the highest run scorer there.
Speaker B:And today he was just timing the ball beautif.
Speaker B:I honestly feel if he had lasted a couple more overs, obviously he had to take a lot of risk chasing 200 plus but.
Speaker B:But had he managed to survive a couple more overs it could have been a different result considering how close today's game went.
Speaker B:So yeah, really great batting talent.
Speaker B:Another one where, you know, Bombay lost Nihil Adera who moved to Punjab and was again a solid backup to, or not even a backup.
Speaker B:He would, he would start for Bombay.
Speaker B:But if, even if Tilakarma failed, they knew they had him.
Speaker B:So now they have Namandir who's clearly very capable.
Speaker B:And yeah, that batting lineup is another really solid one which somehow is underperforming and not getting all of their, you know, all of their players clicking just yet.
Speaker B:But the other one was Prabhup Simran Singh.
Speaker B:He's.
Speaker B:I would, you know, he's not somebody who's caught my attention now.
Speaker B:I think he's been around for long enough that people have seen him perform for Punjab Kings.
Speaker B:But nice to see him get a early 50 in the tournament and, and set up that comfortable win.
Speaker B:Yeah, he's just somebody who's honestly kind of reminds me of Glenn Maxwell.
Speaker B:I, I don't know why that comparison, but whenever I see him bat, I feel like the first ball could be an attempt to hit a six, which very few people do.
Speaker B:So that is one thing I, I really enjoy watching him, you know, just that that's something I would expect of Glenn Maxwell.
Speaker B:He could come out and try to reverse sweep the.
Speaker B:And that's what I think of Prabhup Simran Singh.
Speaker B:So yeah, those, those two definitely stood out to me.
Speaker B:And the third one that I hope we get to see a lot more of is Aniket Verma from srh.
Speaker B:He's, he's.
Speaker B:I've only watched one inning, so it's obviously early days and I heard he's injured his toe while batting, so I'm not sure if he's going to play the next game.
Speaker B:But, but one of the interviews that he gave, he talked about, you know, that he wanted to be the highest six hitter in the SRH team in this ipl.
Speaker B:And that's pretty unique because I think we have been so used to seeing batters say, I want the orange cap, I want to score the most runs.
Speaker B:You know, that's the mindset.
Speaker B:And I think in the last three, four years that started to change a lot.
Speaker B:Somebody like Sanju Samsung talks about, you know, I want to make, play high impact innings.
Speaker B:Even if I don't make 60, 70, 80 runs, I want to make a quick 30 and 15 balls.
Speaker B:And so that mindset is starting to change and it was really great to see such a youngster say that and say, yep, I want to compete with Travis Head and try to hit the most sixes in, in this ipl.
Speaker C:Yeah, just trying to hit most sixes in that batting lineup.
Speaker A:Yeah, I was gonna say he's got competition just with.
Speaker A:Just forget the whole team.
Speaker A:Just like the first top two, top two batters.
Speaker A:He's Got to be them.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:That's just fascinating, right?
Speaker A:The mindset has just changed so much.
Speaker A:It has evolved.
Speaker A:It's not about scoring the 50s and the 60s at a strike rate of 120 and 130.
Speaker A:Cough, cough, Coley.
Speaker A:But it's about even just being there for like 10, 15 balls, scoring at a strike rate of 200.
Speaker A:If that adds up in, in a, for a team score like that is that will win you more games than not.
Speaker A:And I, I only mentioned Kohli because I feel like he genuinely tries to up his strike rate and go for the big shots.
Speaker A:And we've had this discussion, you know, with the indie when he was still playing T20s for India, you know, especially towards that, towards the last T20 World cup, he was buying into the aggressive approach and trying to up his tempo.
Speaker A:But even that T20 World cup final and now, you know, even in this ipl, you can see that his natural game is making sure he doesn't lose his wicket.
Speaker A:Like, this is years and years of work on his technique, years and years of work on his game to make sure he's there, spending more time at the crease.
Speaker A:And this is something that I feel like it's easier for younger players to adapt this kind of attitude and approach.
Speaker A:It's harder for the more experienced players or the more older players to adapt it.
Speaker A:But that's why I feel like the T20 format, for all the evolution that we've already seen, it'll be fascinating in the next 10 years when that older generation of batteries have kind of been phased out and you only have players with this mindset of like, we don't have time to just like get singles, like nudge a single here and there.
Speaker A:We just have to hit boundaries or dots.
Speaker A:Like, this is how it's gonna be.
Speaker C:Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out, I think.
Speaker C:Yeah, the.
Speaker C:Probably T20 is kind of the cutting edge of innovation in this sort of stuff, isn't it?
Speaker C:And the IPL is probably the pinnacle of that.
Speaker C:So, yeah, you see it in.
Speaker C:You see it in the IPL first and then, yeah, you'll be in Test matches in six or seven years time.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, honestly, that's the way you're going to attract new fans to the game, I don't think.
Speaker A:I mean, there will be players, there will be people who probably become fans of cricket after watching Test cricket, but they're going to be in the minority in today's world where everything needs to be fast and instantaneous, like T20 is the best way to attract newer fans.
Speaker A:And so especially with the Olympics coming up, the T20 format is going to be a great way.
Speaker A:And the approach of batters, people will be able to associate that like, oh, this I can get behind, you know.
Speaker A:So yeah, I think talking about cutting edge and T20s, if you are serious about growing the game, this is the way to do it.
Speaker C:Yeah, I'd agree.
Speaker C:So, so long as that coexists alongside the other formats.
Speaker C:Because I do think there's, I mean there's a question mark over 50 over cricket.
Speaker C:I, I think it's really valuable.
Speaker C:But yeah, test matches for me always going to be the pinnacle and you know, T20 is great but you know, I think that the people who run cricket, if there is anyone running cricket at the moment, should try and find a way for the three formats to kind of coexist peacefully with each other.
Speaker A:Maybe we'll let AI run cricket.
Speaker A:It'll probably do a better job.
Speaker A:Administrators right now.
Speaker B:Moving on.
Speaker B:So well, let's talk about the teams and how they're shaping up.
Speaker B:Ben, on your sub stack, I read that you fancy Punjab Kings and I, I can totally see why they're, they're doing a great job.
Speaker B:Seems like a really balanced team.
Speaker B:Are there any teams that have surprised you in terms of how they've started?
Speaker B:Overperformed or underperformed?
Speaker C:I think, I think there's been probably quite a few surprises and yeah, as you say, Punjab Kings are my pick before the tournament started and you know, I've seen nothing to change my mind so far.
Speaker C:I just think they, they had some clever buys at the auction and you know, Ponting's a great coach and you know, I think, yeah, I think they'll take all the beating to be honest.
Speaker C:I think they should get to the playoffs at least I suppose.
Speaker C:The other one that have surprised me positively has been Delhi Capitals.
Speaker C:They've only played two games but two from two.
Speaker C:We already spoke about Stark and, and his five wickets against Sunrises.
Speaker C:And that first game was an absolute cracker, wasn't it?
Speaker C:A kind of freak chase of 200 and something when they were 60 odd for five just after the power play.
Speaker C:And then you know, we talk a lot about guys like Tim David and Glenn Maxwell being great finishers and, and obviously Dhoni of course back when he was good.
Speaker C:But like Ashutosh, his, the, the finishing that he showed there for Delhi was, was fantastic in that game.
Speaker C:I think he's, he's, he's the real deal.
Speaker C:There's obviously been surprises on the, on the negative side too.
Speaker C:We've spoken about sunrises.
Speaker C:I think everyone expected them to kind of blow other teams off the park with that, with that top five, but it just kind of hasn't worked out that way so far.
Speaker C:Mumbai Indians have been a bit rubbish.
Speaker C:I hope for better from them this year.
Speaker C:But, you know, it seems to happen most years now that they kind of assemble this cast of superstars and then it just kind of.
Speaker C:It doesn't click until it's, until it's too late for them.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:I guess they must be pinning their hopes on Burma coming back and coming back strong.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think even I.
Speaker B:We did a podcast where we talked about the top teams and my top three were srh, Mumbai and kkr.
Speaker B:So I find really funny that at this point, two of them are not looking super hot.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:But yeah, it is a long tournament, long way to go.
Speaker B:I, I will say that I still believe SRH is a pretty quality side.
Speaker B:I am a little surprised on how they've gone so far, but I think they're still pretty qual and that batting lineup has enough to win, you know, six, seven games easy.
Speaker B:So I think we'll get to a point where their bowling will also have great days.
Speaker B:You know, whether it's Hershel Patel, Adam Zampa coming in as an impact player, Pat Cummins who can bowl pretty much at any phase of the, any phase of the game.
Speaker B:So I think all of they have enough there to.
Speaker B:They may not be the best bowling lineup, but they have enough there to keep fighting.
Speaker B:So I do think they'll make a comeback, but definitely surprised to see how they've done so far to the point you made earlier.
Speaker B:You know, it's clear that teams started to strategize better in terms of what lens to bowl to them, what lines to bowl, but we'll see how effective that stays over over a longer period.
Speaker B:And then Mumbai, yeah, Mumbai has been an interesting one because apart from Bura, they've really had majority of their team available.
Speaker B:And that batting lineup, I mean, today of course Rohit was injured, but you know, apart from that, that batting lineup is really solid.
Speaker B:Right from Ryan Rickleton from South Africa, who's been in great form all the way till Namandir, who we all already talked about.
Speaker B:You know, there's a lot of hitting capabilities there.
Speaker B:Hardik and Surya Kumariadav can play with a little more patience if needed.
Speaker B:So yeah, it's a great batting lineup.
Speaker B:They have the bowlers to take new ball wickets.
Speaker B:Of course they're missing Bumrah.
Speaker B:But no way are they a team that should be in the bottom three or four.
Speaker B:Like that makes no sense from, you know, when you look at the squads across, across the 10 teams.
Speaker B:So I do think they'll, they'll also make a comeback.
Speaker B:But it's, you know, the, the interesting thing here is it took the 12th game this season for every team to get at least their first win.
Speaker B:And that almost never happens even in an eight team ipl.
Speaker B:It's taken longer many times for every team to get a win.
Speaker B:So it's going to be a really close ipl.
Speaker B:I think that is one thing we can say for sure.
Speaker C:And there's such a long way to go, isn't there's definitely a marathon and not a sprint.
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:The IPL has 10 teams who are not perfect.
Speaker A:They're all have some gaps, they all have some holes.
Speaker A:And I think the better teams who would make it to the top four will be the ones who can kind of paper over their weakness and have enough to kind of counter that, you know.
Speaker A:So last, when we did this last episode when we kind of gave our predictions for top four at the start of the season after the first round, my predictions were csk, mi, SRH and Punjab Kings.
Speaker A:And I'm gonna make a slight correction based on the last few games.
Speaker A:I still think, you know, Punjab Kings, honestly they look good.
Speaker A:I think the combination of shareside Ricky Ponting, I think it's somehow these two have come together.
Speaker A:I think they've actually paired up before too, if I'm not mistaken.
Speaker A:But now I think they have good team like the players and the backroom staff.
Speaker A:And just based on the evidence of the first couple of games, they look good.
Speaker A:So barring any dramatic loss of form, injuries, all of those, I think they're good to make it to the playoffs.
Speaker A:Mumbai Indians, for the reasons that Mike mentioned, I still think that they can make a comeback.
Speaker A:I think they've got a good, they don't have a perfect core of players, but I think they have enough to power, you know, make a comeback and power through to the playoffs.
Speaker A:And I think just their pedigree, you know, their history of being in these kind of situations before and fighting it through to the playoffs.
Speaker A:I think also since they have my Hillel Jarrett and I'm back as coach, I think they're in good position again.
Speaker A:Long way to go, but I think I'm not ruling them out of the playoffs yet.
Speaker A:Now the other two I had high hopes in SRH and Again, they may prove me wrong but, but they've been kind of shaky and even leaving aside just that, you know, Travis said and Abhishektrama not firing in the last couple of games, their bowling attack doesn't inspire much confidence.
Speaker A:You know, we, we talk a lot about the fact that they have been scoring all these 200 plus totals last season started off the same way this season.
Speaker A:But the fact is that's been covering the fact that their bowlers have also been conceding 200 plus totals and they've not been able to go toe to toe with other teams on other grounds outside of Hyderabad.
Speaker A:So I'm not so sure now about them making it to the playoffs unless their batsman just are able to out bat all the other teams consistently.
Speaker A:So for now I'm going to take them out of the top four.
Speaker A:Same thing with Chennai Super Kings.
Speaker A:As painful as it is for me to say, I really thought that this could be a season where they would go to the playoffs.
Speaker A:But and I've like taken emotion out of this because they just don't seem to have the squad for it.
Speaker A:Like their players who are in look out of form, out of confidence.
Speaker A:There doesn't seem to be they, they don't seem to have that aura of old, you know, in from previous seasons and so I just don't think they have so compared to a team like Mumbai Indians, they kind of, kind of in the similar, you know, paths, right?
Speaker A:Both of them legendary records in the ipl, won multiple titles, won multiple seasons and both have had a rough start to this year.
Speaker A:Whereas Mumbai Indians, I feel they can still make a comeback and make it to the top four.
Speaker A:But Chennai Super Kings, I feel they will probably grab a few wins here and there but that they just don't seem to have enough to push them through the top four.
Speaker A:So I'm gonna take them off as well.
Speaker A:So the two teams that will replace them 1.
Speaker A:Gujarat Titans I'm liking how they're shaping up like the squad and the combination and it's the thing that I'm really liking about them is execution of their strategies.
Speaker A:Shimon Gill, it's too early to evaluate his performance as a leader.
Speaker A:I know he's captain last year too but that I think he has lots of room for improvement in terms of leadership.
Speaker A:But I like how the team is doing and I think they have a good chance of making it three and three making it to another playoffs this year and then kkr I'm still, I'm on the fence about them.
Speaker A:I think I'm not convinced about a Jinkirania as meriting his place in the side.
Speaker A:But then you look at other options and I think, okay, well, there's no one else.
Speaker A:So he's, and he's doing fairly decently, so I can't even like discount him.
Speaker A:And as far as leadership, obviously I think he's one of the better, smarter minds in Indian cricket anyway.
Speaker A:So they may have just lucked out accidentally with him and they've got a good set of players who won the title last year and I think they might just make it to the playoffs again.
Speaker A:So that's how I feel.
Speaker A:It's shaping up after these last few games.
Speaker A:In fact, I'm gonna say with Chennai Super Kings, they may take the wooden spoon.
Speaker A:I thought Delhi Capitals would, but I feel like Delhi Capitals are actually in a much better place than Cheddar Super Kings right now.
Speaker B:And talking of wooden spoon, my prediction was Lucknow.
Speaker B:And they have surprised me for sure.
Speaker B:I, I genuinely felt their bowling was non existent.
Speaker B:You know, I mean, not to, not to, you know, pull down some of the young bowlers that they have.
Speaker B:Digwesh Rati from Delhi, for example, who now plays for lsg, seems like a, you know, pretty intelligent bowler.
Speaker B:He's like trying different things.
Speaker B:I've always really liked Ravi Bishnoi has played for India.
Speaker B:So he's, you know, he's there and thereabouts he may not be the best out there, but it just felt like with all the injuries that their bowlers had, Akash Deep was out until today's game.
Speaker B:Mayank Yala was still out.
Speaker B:There's was all those injury concerns.
Speaker B:It just felt like they didn't have the bowling.
Speaker B:But boy, has their batting fired.
Speaker B:Mitch Marsh, who had, I believe he had three IPL 50s before joining Lucknow this season and he has 350s in four games this season.
Speaker B:So it's a remarkable turnaround for Mitch Marsh, who's not necessarily known to be a, you know, strong performer.
Speaker B:And then of course, you know, there's very limited, you have to say about Nicholas Puran who seems to come out swinging and connecting every ball 90 meters into the, into the, into the crowd.
Speaker B:So, yeah, that batting lineup has just been doing so well that I, yeah, I think they, they have, they have a chance, but we'll see how long they can continue doing that.
Speaker B:And, and I think, yeah, at some point, I, I generally think at some point the lack of depth in their bowling is gonna come back to bite them like it did in their first game where, you know, they scored 218 I think it was and, and DC still managed to sneak through.
Speaker B:So one of those that I feel is really interesting because I was, I looked at that and I think not just me, there were so many people who were thinking Lucknow are going to be you know, somewhere between eight to 10 at the end of the season.
Speaker C:I think the one disappointment for them has been Rishabh Pant.
Speaker C:Their batting lineup's been, been firing really nicely but Pan just hasn't, hasn't made any runs so far, has he?
Speaker C:It just looks a bit, a bit out, out of shape.
Speaker B:He really does, he really does.
Speaker B:It's not, it's weird to see him like that.
Speaker B:Like he's, he's had a couple of mediocre IPL seasons.
Speaker B: e's obviously when he came in: Speaker B:at that point it was, it got everybody's attention but it's been definitely going downhill and I think his fitness, obviously his knee, all of that plays into it.
Speaker B:You know not to, not to say that that is not a factor but since then he's won the T20 World cup with India so he obviously has you know, potential.
Speaker C:He's always been my favorite players ever since he played that innings in that test match against Australia when the they came from a hopeless position.
Speaker C:The win.
Speaker C:Yeah that one.
Speaker C:I remember watching that and thinking yeah this, this guy's good.
Speaker C:So yeah, hopefully he, he comes back and, and you know scores some runs for LSG.
Speaker A:Well the thing about Rashapon though is like T20 is not as strong as format he's had.
Speaker A:Yeah he's had like a few good knocks here and there over the last few years and probably like one season where he really scored a lot of runs but for most part he really struggles with the tempo and setting the pace in T20s which is just mind boggling to me when you think about it's Rishabh but I thought this may segue well into the next topic that we'll talk about.
Speaker A:Maybe they should use Rishabh the way to Chennai Super Kings.
Speaker A:Use Emma S.
Speaker A:Dhoni like send him in the last few hours, tell him like all you need to do is just swing.
Speaker A:Like don't worry about runs, we want you to give like a late order like push or late innings push.
Speaker A:Don't worry about getting your eye in and like getting the singles here and there.
Speaker A:Obviously they're not at that stage yet but the fact is They've got a good, you know, like, Mitchell Marsh is doing well, Markram is doing well, Puran is doing well.
Speaker A:They have, they have the batters up top.
Speaker A:He doesn't need to come in in the first 10 overs and then score at a strike rate of like a 1, 120, 130.
Speaker A:Just send him in at the end.
Speaker A:It's like three or four overs to go and say, hey, just give us a quick 25 or 30 of like 15 balls.
Speaker C:Like take the pressure off a bit.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And just let him just enjoy himself.
Speaker A:It probably physically too, especially after his accident.
Speaker A:He's probably still not fully there yet.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I, I think it would be interesting if they tried that approach with him.
Speaker C:Although that said, it's not really working for.
Speaker C:Sorry, Benny, but it's not really working for CSK and Dhoni, is it?
Speaker A:Well, I have some thoughts on that.
Speaker A:Okay, so I know there's been a lot of discussion on Emma Stoni and his position with Jedi Super Kings.
Speaker A:First of all, I'll preface by saying Jedi Super Kings is not a serious team, okay?
Speaker A:They are not a serious IPL team.
Speaker A:Any other team, like Movie Indians, is always a good comparison because I feel like CSK and mi, their journey in IPL is very interesting because they kind of like go together because of their highs and lows.
Speaker A:They won the most titles, but they've also like had some really terrible seasons in between.
Speaker A:But whereas MI is very clinical and very professionally run, they're very professionally managed.
Speaker A:You know, there's a lot of thought that goes into how they recruit players.
Speaker A:You know, how they scout players and like develop them over the over years.
Speaker A:With csk, their USP is loyalty, right?
Speaker A:Like they stick with the same players.
Speaker A:They don't really give too much emphasis or importance on identifying new star players or new young upcoming players.
Speaker A:And if they do, they'll drop them very quickly if they don't perform right.
Speaker A:But if a player does well for two seasons, it doesn't matter if he's like 34, 35, 36, they will stick with that play right till the end.
Speaker A:And Amazon is probably like symbolic of that.
Speaker A:Now, Amazonian goes beyond all of that in some ways because he's been with the team right from the beginning.
Speaker A:It led them to so many titles.
Speaker A:Super Kings run more on emotion than logic.
Speaker A:And they can argue, well, we won five titles this way and people have been complaining about how old their team is for years and years and still they managed to win titles.
Speaker A:And I think that's the same logic that they're using for this as well.
Speaker A:Now I don't think CSK struggles are related to Ms.
Speaker A:Dhoni.
Speaker A:Like yes, you can talk about the fact that he's coming in late, he could be sent up, up.
Speaker A:But the fact is Chinese ripper kings have much bigger troubles, they're much bigger problems and Amazon is actually one of the few positives for CSK and I, I don't understand why there's a lot of attention paid to Dhoni and why CSK fans love him so much.
Speaker A:I mean that's, that's just an identity for csk.
Speaker A:Like once Dhoni goes yes, there will be some struggle with, with who do we associate this team with?
Speaker A:Rudraj Gaikwad is a captain but he doesn't really have the same pool that someone like Dhoni has held over the fans for years.
Speaker A:So that is just, it's, it's not a bug, it's just a feature of CSK fandom.
Speaker A:Now the thing is, is it affecting team performances?
Speaker A:And I would argue it's not.
Speaker A:Amazoni is still, when he does bad for the limited amount of times he does, he's doing his role.
Speaker A:He's still hitting like kind of what I was talking about with punt.
Speaker A:He is coming in those last few overs, he's scoring those big 30s and 40s.
Speaker A:Now the fact is it's not helping them win and I guess that's where people come in and say wait, that's not really helping.
Speaker A:But the fact is we look around and we see the other players.
Speaker A:We are not getting anything from them.
Speaker A:Rahul Tripathi, Deepakura, Vijay Shankar.
Speaker A:I know he's just one game but he never inspires confidence whenever he plays even with other teams.
Speaker A:And it's really like if Rachin Ravindra or R don't click.
Speaker A:Same thing with Shimad Dube.
Speaker A:Yeah, CSK don't really have much going for them in batting and then less said about the bowling the better.
Speaker A:We have a non existent bowling lineup.
Speaker A:I know big names are there, we have Ashwin, we have Jadeja Nurama.
Speaker A:There's been like the lone bright spot but ultimately at the end of the day performances matter and we're not getting that from these players on a consistent basis especially fast bowlers.
Speaker A:I'm like where are the fast bowlers?
Speaker A:Khalil Ahmed is doing well but where is everybody else?
Speaker A:Patirana is fine but Sam Curran, I, I, I, I for sentiment value.
Speaker A:Like I like seeing Sam Curran.
Speaker A:I've always liked Sam Curren from his, you know, the first time around when he came with csk.
Speaker A:But he's not the same player, which is disappointing.
Speaker A:He doesn't have the same confidence with either bad or ball.
Speaker A:So CSK have a lot of troubles and Ms.
Speaker A:Dhoni isn't it and I think he's just like a very easy person to kind of latch onto and blame CSK's performances on.
Speaker A:But I would argue that he's actually one of the few bright spots for Chennai Super Kings.
Speaker B:I'm gonna actually disagree with you quite a bit, Benny.
Speaker A:Okay, go ahead.
Speaker B:But yeah, I think, I think, you know, they, they definitely have made some blunders in terms of, you know, this is a mega auction, a team you have to more or less stick with for three years and they've picked the likes of Ashwin who are, you know, 37 and not playing for India anymore.
Speaker B:So that was always going to be an issue, like having somebody like that.
Speaker B:Having said that, assuming they were able to have some influence on the pitches, spinning wickets, him, Jadeja, Nur Ahmed, that's still a pretty good, you know, base to work with.
Speaker B:Their batting in this season has been a little inconsistent, there's no doubt about it.
Speaker B:But I think the reason a Jadeja has to bat at number six when he's not fit for it is because Dhoni is definitely not fit to be number six anymore and, and that's why he's forced up the order.
Speaker B:Same thing with Ashwin.
Speaker B:Like it makes no sense for Ashwin to be batting higher than Ms.
Speaker B:Dhoni.
Speaker B:Like at that point it's time to give up.
Speaker B:Like it's, that's, that's the way I look at it because neither of them, although Ashwin to be, to give him some credit, has worked on his power hitting and you know, he played that floater type of role for Rajasthan Royals as well once in a while in the last couple of seasons he's not as capable of a hitter as, you know, the number sevens across other teams.
Speaker B:Like if you look at Tim David and RCB or you know, many other teams have like Abdul Samad coming in for Lucknow, they are extremely, extremely solid hitters who can come in and smack it from ball one.
Speaker B:Neither Ashman or Jadeja are that and truthfully, Nevazoni is way past it.
Speaker B: Like I remember when the: Speaker B:Dhoni's strike rate against spin back then, this is what six years ago in one day's was 68 or 65, something like that.
Speaker B:So he's been struggling against quality spin for a long, long time.
Speaker B: es, chances than ODIs back in: Speaker B:Dhoni was past it then.
Speaker B:So I think he's way past it now.
Speaker B:Honestly he's gonna do just fine against mediocre medium pace which is what his strength has, has been.
Speaker B:And I think that's what ends up happening like when the team, then the team is way behind it.
Speaker B:They, the opposition's giving the ball to some relative newcomer, they're missing their lens.
Speaker B:Amazon is making the most of it and so yeah, his strike rate looks great but the fact that they don't have the confidence to send him earlier when the game is still in play, I think that says everything about his fitness and his form.
Speaker A:No, I agree on that.
Speaker A:That's why I said CSK is not a serious team.
Speaker A:No other team would do this.
Speaker A:It's only CSK who do this because it's Dhoni, right?
Speaker A:Like is the name.
Speaker B:I will disagree there too because I think Rohit of has been doing the same for Mumbai.
Speaker B:If you look at the last five IPL seasons, his record as an opener is marginally better than Ajinkya Rahane and that says a lot because you know the way those two players are looked at is vastly different.
Speaker B:Like Rahani in an eight team IPL maybe wouldn't even make it but because it's a 10 team IPL, he's leading a team.
Speaker B:And Rohit on the other hand has been leading and doing all of that.
Speaker B:But he strikes in 120s.
Speaker B:He's not the highest consistent run getter he'll have.
Speaker B:Of course he's Rohit so he'll still have the odd amazing innings here and there but he's not been the most consistent.
Speaker B:So I, I do think like teams have to figure out now that again another one of those things where now the IPL is maturing and so far they've had one generation sort of carry them through.
Speaker B:So Dhoni's been playing for 16 years at TSK.
Speaker B:Kohli's playing for 18 years for RCB.
Speaker B:I don't know how many years for Rohit, but pretty close to 15, 16 I assume.
Speaker B:So they have to really figure out how to balance that identity versus actually players who, you know, who are performing.
Speaker B:Ben, Ben, I'll bring you in.
Speaker B:I know we've, we've shared our perspectives but what are your thoughts?
Speaker C:Yeah, I think I'm probably closer to Your view, Mike, than Benny's?
Speaker C:I think you know, when Dhoni's.
Speaker A:My CSK fan bias is leaking in.
Speaker C:Maybe just a little bit.
Speaker C:I, I think, you know, when he, I'm not here to criticize Dhoni, he, he's a legend.
Speaker C:But I think you can, you can probably criticize the fact that CSK are a one man team and they're built around a player who isn't necessarily what he once was and doesn't seem to be any succession planning.
Speaker C:It's not like he's there to kind of mentor the next generation of CSK players because as most of the other players are pretty old as well.
Speaker C:It's like, I don't know.
Speaker C:In my view he should stop playing and move into a mentor role.
Speaker C:You know, he, when he's batting number nine, what's the, what's the point?
Speaker C:He's not influencing a game at a key moment.
Speaker C:You know, number nine in a T20 game, you're normally coming in when it's a lost cause.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And it's.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I saw some stats the other day that, that showed Dhoni's record and strike rate in successful chases versus unsuccessful chases and he, he barely does anything in successful chases and I know that might, you can say that that's because he's not needed in a successful chase.
Speaker C:Nearly comes in when there's a crisis.
Speaker C:But I don't know, I, I think it's, in my view it's probably time to start using him as more of a mentor and less of a player.
Speaker C:And you know, that said the time, the time for him to make that decision was probably before the auction so they could build a new core for the, for the future and, and you know, find a new wicket keeper.
Speaker C:But you know, not, not now.
Speaker C:But yeah, I, you know, I love Dhoni.
Speaker C:He's been around for so long, he, he's a legend.
Speaker C:But I think he's, he's probably hindering the team rather than helping the team at this stage.
Speaker B:I mean I think the.
Speaker B:Sorry, one comment Benny was I think this is not a Dhoni problem.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:This is an age problem.
Speaker B:Like if you look at, you know, Sachin Tendulkar for that matter, one of the greatest batters we've all ever seen.
Speaker B: he won the, the World cup in: Speaker B:So it's, it's an aging problem.
Speaker B:India doesn't really do well with managing aging stars and these franchises are not any different in my mind.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's like who's going to make the decision?
Speaker C:Because I, yeah, I don't think anybody's gonna have the guts to make the decision for him.
Speaker C:So then it's just kind of up to him on when he decides to hang up those wicket keeping gloves for the last time.
Speaker C:But it's like, yeah, when I mean I saw an article the other day where he was joking that they'd still pick him if he was in a wheelchair and I think he was only half joking.
Speaker A:Yeah, I would say that is half true.
Speaker A:So as pretty much a CSK fan right from the beginning, I would say that personally I agree with you guys in that the right thing to do is for Amazon to realize it's way past time for me to be done.
Speaker A:I've had a good time with the Chinese Super Kings.
Speaker A:We've won multiple titles, we've done our thing, I've done my thing, I paid my dues.
Speaker A:Now it's time to step back and let a younger generation, newer generation of players step up.
Speaker A:That's my preference and I would think that many CSK fans would feel the same.
Speaker A:But the problem is there's another set of CSK fans for whom it's Dhoni or bust.
Speaker A:Like if it's not donee, then we don't care anymore.
Speaker A:And that's the unfortunate reality for Chennai Super Kings.
Speaker A:And I think that's the camp in which the CSK owners, I'm not saying Stephen Fleming because I personally have this feeling that Fleming would be happy too if Tony left.
Speaker A:But the CSK owners, they have the strong bond with Ms.
Speaker A:Dhoni where he also, I think he has like some sort of working relationship with them as well outside of cricket.
Speaker A:So there's this conflict of interest I think where Amazoni, unless he says I'm done, the CSK owners are not going to nudge him and say, hey, maybe it's time to step back.
Speaker A:Unless CSK endured like two to three seasons of back to back like humiliation, I don't think anything is going to change.
Speaker A:So I personally wish that.
Speaker A:Okay, if you're gonna go with that then I wish the CSK team building had been done around that.
Speaker A:Maybe at least get players who are younger to compliment Ms.
Speaker A:Dhoni instead.
Speaker A:You have all these kind of People around the same age who are all kind of towards the end of their, you know, they're past their peak and kind of on fumes right now or at least develop your strategies to complement the fact that if you're not going to send Emma's donee before the 16th over or 17th over, then have the kind of players who are going to give you enough that where Amazon is coming in that late, it's not going to hurt your chances.
Speaker A:And I feel like that's where the current management has dropped the ball.
Speaker A:They just didn't plan well with the team building in the auctions and now it's just too late.
Speaker A:And that's why I feel like I don't think there's anything they can do to kind of reverse their fortunes.
Speaker A:And I think this season we're just going to have to suck it up and just accept that this is going to be a painful season for CSK fans and hopefully better sense prevails next year.
Speaker C:I think this is one final point that I wanted to make was just kind of every year in the ipl.
Speaker C:I'm just amazed at the strength and depth of Indian cricket.
Speaker C:I must admit I don't follow the domestic season in India too closely, but every year you see these amazing young players getting unearthed by the franchises.
Speaker C:They must have incredible scouts, scouting networks to go and find these, these kids players I've never heard of coming from nowhere to perform at the IPL on the biggest stage.
Speaker C:It's just, it's just remarkable.
Speaker C:I wish, I wish we had the same strength and depth here in England.
Speaker A:And I would argue that it took a long time, it took several years, but it has ultimately contributed to the kind of players that has helped India win the T20 World cup, the Champions Trophy and nearly with the 50 over World Cup.
Speaker C:India is easily the best white ball side in the world now.
Speaker C:And that's, yeah, yeah, a big part.
Speaker A:Of the reason then the IPL is a big factor in that because of the exposure to these high voltage contests, playing with and again some of the better, some of the best players in the world.
Speaker A:So yeah, it took a while but I think he definitely got there.
Speaker B:I think the one aspect, not to throw a tangent, I mean there's no doubt the IPL is a big success factor but the one sort of recent stat that I read was for every pound earned by the Premier League, 71 cents gets sent to the players in the IPL that is 17.
Speaker B:So I think there's still a long, long way to go in terms of what can be done for the players.
Speaker B:That's not to disagree with the fact that, yep, ipl, the exposure, the ability to see how the best in the world, train travel, all of that is helping Indian cricket to a large, large degree.
Speaker B:But I just think there's so much more to do because obviously we see these crazy price tags of start getting 25 crores and Shreya say are getting something ridiculous, these numbers.
Speaker B:But the vast majority of these players still earn 20 lakhs, 50 lakhs which you know, for considering the fact that domestic cricket doesn't pay as well, that's not a ton of money to, to be a professional athlete.
Speaker B:So I, I do hope that over time and again this is me being the optimist about the league maturing.
Speaker B:But we'll see.
Speaker B:We'll see if that ever happens is, you know, more, more of that money goes down to the grassroots and to the players itself.
Speaker A:Agree.
Speaker A:Well, on that note, we're going to wrap it up here.
Speaker A:But Ben, thank you so much once again for making some time for us and sharing your thoughts on the IPL and to our listeners, do check out his substack once again we'll include the link in our show notes.
Speaker A:But Ben, you're, you're welcome to come back anytime you want to talk about IPL or really cricket in general.
Speaker C:Thanks guys.
Speaker C:Yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker C:It's been an absolute pleasure.
Speaker C:Really interesting discussion today and yeah, hope to see you again soon.
Speaker A:Yeah and hopefully by then CSK would have done enough that I can say haha.
Speaker A:See they're not all that bad.
Speaker C:Keep my fingers crossed for you Benny.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:I really appreciate your thoughts and prayers to our listeners once again.
Speaker A:Thanks for listening and we'll catch you next time.
