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From Dreams to Reality: The Indian Women's Cricket World Cup Victory with Sarthak Dev
The recent triumph of the Indian women's cricket team in the Women's Cricket World Cup represents a historic milestone that resonates deeply within the realm of sports and beyond. This episode delves into the profound implications of this victory, celebrating the culmination of years of perseverance and dedication from players who have long fought for recognition and respect in a domain traditionally dominated by their male counterparts. Hosts Benny and Mayank, joined by special guest Sarthak Dev reflect on the emotional journey of the tournament, the team's remarkable performances, and the significance of their win for the future of women's cricket in India. The discussions encompass not only the players' extraordinary skills but also the critical need for structural support and cultural change to sustain this momentum. Join us as we explore the rich tapestry of emotions and insights that accompany this landmark achievement in cricket history.
Takeaways:
- The Indian women's cricket team achieved a historic victory by winning the Women's Cricket World Cup, marking a significant milestone in the sport's history in India.
- This victory is seen as a turning point for women's cricket in India, potentially inspiring a new generation of female cricketers to pursue the sport professionally.
- The team's journey to the World Cup was characterized by resilience and determination, with players overcoming significant challenges and pressures throughout the tournament.
- Harmanpreet Kaur's leadership has been pivotal in this success, showcasing her ability to inspire and lead her team under pressure during critical moments of the tournament.
- The importance of structural support and investment in women's cricket is emphasized, as there is a need for long-term plans to sustain and grow the sport in India.
- The emotional celebration and acknowledgment of past legends during the victory celebrations highlighted the journey and struggles of women's cricket in India, reinforcing the significance of this win.
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Transcript
Hello and welcome to the Last wicked.
Speaker A:I'm your host Benny.
Speaker A:Thank you for joining us.
Speaker A:And on today's episode I'm joined by my co host Mike.
Speaker A:Hey Mike.
Speaker B:Hey Benny.
Speaker A:And returning guest Sarthak Dev.
Speaker A:Hi Sarthak.
Speaker C:Hey guys, how are you?
Speaker C:Nice to be here.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Welcome back.
Speaker A:I missed you the last time you were on which was very, very recently talking about the same thing that we are going to be talking about but from a really different angle.
Speaker A:Now so much has happened since the last time you came on the show and we'll get to all of that and more.
Speaker A:But just a quick check with everyone.
Speaker A:It's only been a few days, right?
Speaker A:Only a few days since the Indian women lifted the World Cup.
Speaker A:How is, you know, how's everyone feeling?
Speaker A:Because this is, this is something that probably every Indian cricket fan or at least fans of Indian women cricket has thought about at one time or the other has finally happened.
Speaker A:The Indian women have lifted the World Cup.
Speaker A:So a few days on.
Speaker A:How is everyone feeling about it?
Speaker A:Has, has it all sunk in?
Speaker A:We'll start with you, Sarthak.
Speaker C:It hasn't sunk in.
Speaker C:I have been on a spree of like going through the reels and the content.
Speaker C:There is a video that the ICC media team has put out that is wonderful.
Speaker C:It's a montage of the final and the last few moments of the final.
Speaker C:No, very over, man.
Speaker C:It hasn't sunk in.
Speaker C:I've been, I've been following this team for a while.
Speaker C:It's been more than a decade and not always as feverishly as maybe I have over the last five, six years, but closely enough to have gone to games, to have watched the games on TV and to have kept a tab on how like, you know, how it was being treated by almost their own board because you then saw Australia and England, it was a different world.
Speaker C:So very overwhelmed.
Speaker C:I'll.
Speaker C:I'll shamelessly admit I did not see this happening like when we spoke last.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:Yeah, but good.
Speaker C:Kind of overwhelmed.
Speaker A:And you, Mike?
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean it's been an awesome feeling similar to Sarthak.
Speaker B:I've been looking at a lot of reels and looking at the same videos again and again.
Speaker B:When Harman Preet goes and hugs Jhulan Goswami hands the trophy to Mithali Raj.
Speaker B:All of that, like I've watched it so many times but.
Speaker B:But yeah, I just feel like watching them again, it's just a good feeling.
Speaker B:And yeah, I mean I think there was so much about naysayers and you know, people who have been criticizing the team in.
Speaker B:In many cases unfairly through the World cup and people jumping on the bandwagon to bash them.
Speaker B:And honestly, when it happened on Sunday, when we won, I was just so positive.
Speaker B:I was like, I don't want to worry about these people.
Speaker B:This is about the players.
Speaker C:This is not about 100%.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I was like, let's not worry about them.
Speaker B:We'll, you know, this should silence them automatically.
Speaker B:So I was keeping all of that aside and I was just happy and, yeah, enjoying the moment.
Speaker A:And for me, you know, from the perspective of someone who only got into women's cricket probably the last three, four years, for me, it was a sense of what took them so long.
Speaker A:You know, it was a sense of especially watching the semifinals and the final.
Speaker A:You know, the players just went about their business.
Speaker A:There was a lot of noise, there was a lot of chatter.
Speaker A:You know, there's a lot of passion in the stands, but on the field, like, led.
Speaker A:Led by Harman Preet, like, every player just went out there, did their role very calmly.
Speaker A:And same thing with the final.
Speaker A:Like, I can't imagine the pressure that they would have been facing, you know, on final day.
Speaker A:And still they went about their business.
Speaker A:They, you know, it was not a flawless performance, obviously, you know, either the semi or the final.
Speaker A:But they did grab the crucial moments, which is the hallmark of a champion site.
Speaker A:You know, you grab onto those moments and you come across so as at the end of the night, it was like it.
Speaker A:You know, I know the word destiny has been thrown around a lot, but I felt this was very apt.
Speaker A:And I do want to get into what this means, what this means for Indian women's cricket, women's cricket in general, again.
Speaker A:And let's not forget South Africa, they were also an amazing team in this tournament, and they also had, you know, kind of like a very hot spot of a campaign where they started off badly, did well, and then again stumbled again, and then, you know, got through the finals.
Speaker A:So we'll talk about them as well, but let's talk about that day itself or the game itself.
Speaker A:You know, we.
Speaker A:At least, Mike, when you and I, we chatted before the final, I think the consensus was, you know, the chasing team would have an advantage.
Speaker A:Or was it just me?
Speaker A:I don't remember now, but I really felt that if South Africa, whoever was going to chase, would have the advantage.
Speaker A:And when, you know, India was batting first, I was really thinking that, oh, no.
Speaker A:But what did you make of, you know, just how the final panned Out.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, if I start, I agree.
Speaker B:I was thinking because South Africa had chased well in this tournament and DY Partle had shown to be a chasing friendly ground already.
Speaker B:India had chased, of course, a record total just two days before the final, three days before the final.
Speaker B:So there were all these reasons to believe, yeah, the toss will play a crucial role.
Speaker B:And, and yeah, so I was a little bummed that they did not get to bowl first.
Speaker B:But having said that, I think other than that, you know, they did a pretty good job in general.
Speaker B:Like, I don't think it was when they were batting.
Speaker B:It wasn't as clinical as the semifinal from a batting performance standpoint.
Speaker B:There were more wickets that fell, there were overs where runs did slow down, but nonetheless, like, you know, they, they found ways to stitch partnerships and keep going.
Speaker B:And Harbin Preet said something in her press conference after she, she said we didn't want to take pressure of, you know, having to score a big, big total.
Speaker B:So we were not thinking about that.
Speaker B:We were just thinking of keep on.
Speaker B:We just keep on batting.
Speaker B:We just, you know, back our strengths.
Speaker B:And clearly that approach worked.
Speaker B:That got them to a really good total.
Speaker B:So, yeah, that at 298, I personally felt there was.
Speaker B:South Africa had a good chance.
Speaker B:There was possibly 20 run short, but it's a final, you know, chasing is never easy and with a decent total, definitely felt India had a good chance.
Speaker B:Really, it was up to the duo.
Speaker B:So I think that that was what my feeling was at halfway mark.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:Sarthak, what are your thoughts?
Speaker C:I'll piggyback on the dew point itself.
Speaker C:I think that was one of the major reasons why we were kind of apprehensive about not just India batting first but 298 being, like you said, 25, maybe 30 runs short.
Speaker C:But there was no due that day.
Speaker C:And even though the game stretched late into the night, which would have meant that you would come early, which, I mean, which would have made it even tougher for India, the dew never came until at least the 35th, 40th over of the South African chase.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And then it was the starting point of the deal, which is not too bad anyway, like the ball wasn't wet enough.
Speaker C:So I think the apprehensions were, like you said, sorry, rooted in what we know of as chases in especially subcontinental stadiums where, sorry, do you play such a big part.
Speaker C:But yeah, 298 was competitive enough and I, I think it was until it was until Marisan Cop Cap got out where I felt South Africa might just be 51, 49 ahead.
Speaker C:Once CAP got out, I thought they were in trouble.
Speaker C:And I know, like I'm a huge Laura Wolfart fan, but I just felt that the foundation that would need to be created for Nadine, her and Nadine De Clerk to just push on, that might not be there.
Speaker C:So for Cap to stick around for maybe 710 overs with Wolford, that would have changed the game.
Speaker C:But that didn't happen, obviously.
Speaker C:But yeah, I think the confidence was very high once Cap got out because it was incredibly.
Speaker C:I was telling Benny off air, it was incredibly low Heartbeat.
Speaker C:Like both in the semi and the final, this group of 11 women, unchanged team, they just went about their business as if, no, we got this, we, that there is not going to be a problem here.
Speaker C:Which says a tremendous amount about their mental fortitude, but about the confidence and they have in themselves because so many of them are so young.
Speaker C:But it says a thing or two about the clarity of plans and maybe we'll come to the backroom stuff later.
Speaker C:But they seem to be very sure, which leaves space for Harman to just, you know, flip the ball over to Shefali and be like, okay, give me a couple of overs.
Speaker C:So, yeah, very well executed defense.
Speaker C:I don't think anyone expected for it to be 150 all out for South Africa.
Speaker C:Laura Wolfhard was going to score runs, but yeah, in the end it felt that, yeah, okay, they got this.
Speaker B:And one thing I'll say is I agree it was relatively low heart rate type of game, but both semifinal and final were amazing games to watch.
Speaker B:Like at no point could you convincingly say one team was out of it.
Speaker B:One team was totally dominating.
Speaker B:None of that was there.
Speaker B:I think both teams were having a good few overs when India started bowling as an example, five really solid overs.
Speaker B:I think Renuka did not concede too many runs.
Speaker B:They had the run rate under control and the only thing in mind was, well, one wicket here and we'll be on top.
Speaker B:And right then their opening duo started getting going, started four.
Speaker B:So it was, it was sort of really back and forth.
Speaker B:There were, you know, four or five over phases in a way that were kind of going back and forth.
Speaker B:So that's why I was never clearly India or clearly South Africa.
Speaker B:And really that's, that's how that, what makes a, that that is what makes a great World Cup Final.
Speaker B:You know, everybody who is, whether it's a neutral, whether it's an Indian fan, South African fan, you're just invested throughout.
Speaker C:It was A great orea game.
Speaker C:It was a really good area game.
Speaker C:I think what becomes of a 340, 350 game and I'll draw back to the game at Ferochia Kotla.
Speaker C:Just before the World cup started Australia came over for a three match series against India where in the third match at Delhi Australia scored 412.
Speaker C:And for the first 25 overs of the chase India were actually ahead of the game because they by 25 overs I think they were 230 or something.
Speaker C:They were absolutely batting it and that has a certain kind of energy.
Speaker C:You have fun, you see great batting but it's not tense.
Speaker C:The tension comes from good bowling and good bowling conditions in cricket across formats I believe.
Speaker C:So a 298 just set the game up on a really small ground.
Speaker C:The ey portal is a tiny ground and you bring the boundaries in for the women's game so it becomes even smaller.
Speaker C:So 298 really set it up where a boundary was always around but you'd had to work hard for it and the pitch was holding up in the first innings itself and you could see that with, especially with Nadine the clerk bowling and you saw that with him, her bowling, you saw that with Tryon bowling that the pitch was just holding up a little bit.
Speaker C:It's not as easy.
Speaker C:So I was just, you know, I was just hoping that the du won't come in the second innings and it didn't.
Speaker C:So once Kramti and Renuka and Amanjot spells were done you could see that Deepti is all right.
Speaker C:Sree Charani is an absolute superstar and it was holding up so much that even Shefali got wickets.
Speaker C:Man, she doesn't even bowl.
Speaker A:You know I'm just glad that the semi finals and the final did not take place in Sri Lanka.
Speaker A:I felt like whenever the game, whatever games they had there and I love football, cricket couldn't compete with the weather there and I don't know that's something for the organizers to take note of I guess.
Speaker A:But before we move on from the final I did want to talk about two cricketers who kind of really are the heroes of the, of the, of that night.
Speaker A:You know Shefali and Deepti both, you know Shefali was not even in the world cup squad to begin with.
Speaker A:Literally plays the last two games as the semi final and the final and just caps it off with an amazing knock.
Speaker A:And then Deepti also with the history of heartbreaks at world cups, what, what did you make of their redemption?
Speaker A:Story or did they even have redemption arc?
Speaker C:Deepti did.
Speaker C:Deepti did a deeper redemption arc.
Speaker C:I'll start with the stat and I'll then just quickly go over the stories.
Speaker C:There have been two women in history of Women's ODI World cup, so which is a 52 year history to have scored a 50 and taken two or more wickets in the same World cup final.
Speaker C:Those two women are Shefali Verma and Deepti Sharma on the same day and Shefali Verma had her best ODI innings and her best bowling innings in the same day and that happened to be a World cup final.
Speaker C: since: Speaker C:And once she went back to domestic, she piled all the runs.
Speaker C:It was, that week was terrible.
Speaker C:Like her father had a heart attack.
Speaker C:Two days later she gets a call that you've been dropped from the ODI team and she's like, okay, she didn't tell her father that.
Speaker C:And then she goes back to domestic cricket, absolutely hammers everyone inside.
Speaker C:There's an ODI inning she played, I think in Rohtak itself where she scored 197 in 115 balls in the senior one day trophy.
Speaker C:Ridiculous.
Speaker C:Deepti's redemption arc was a World cup redemption arc.
Speaker C: She had been at the crease in: Speaker C:They had won almost practically.
Speaker C:They practically won the World cup final and from there they lost the final.
Speaker C:Deepti was batting at that point.
Speaker C: She had been in: Speaker C:She bowled a no ball in 22.
Speaker C:She, she and I think also in 23 she was at the crease when India shelled the chase.
Speaker C:So for her it was.
Speaker C:I've literally been in these moments and not just as a peripheral figure.
Speaker C:I've been at the center of it all, either batting or bowling.
Speaker C:So for Deepti, I think it was a slightly deeper, different.
Speaker C:Shefali's 21.
Speaker C:Yeah, she's just playing her first World cup and she'll have a ridiculous career.
Speaker C:And not to say that a redemption doesn't mean anything.
Speaker C:Of course it does, man.
Speaker C:To come to be airdropped into a World cup with one week to go and say, okay, you're going to play a semi final and the Final in a team that is very dependent on the opening stance.
Speaker C:India, not very good historically when their openers don't click, it's crazy what she's done.
Speaker C:But for Deepti, I think it was slightly more like internal where you're seeing these same stages and you're part of the team that gets questioned day in, day out, outside.
Speaker C:So that kind of redemption.
Speaker C:And it was incredible that the game ended with Deepti's ball and Harmanpreet's catch.
Speaker C:I mean, those two have been there in so many scenes.
Speaker A:It was great, even as a casual fan of the team, just to see these players who have been maligned in different ways over the last few years and especially Deepti, even during the final, I was seeing comments about, like, how poor her running was and, you know, her fitness and all of that.
Speaker A:So I'm sure these players, even if they're not following social media, are reading all these things.
Speaker A:They're aware of what people say and to put that away and just focus on the game and give, give their best, that was just brilliant.
Speaker A:Now I want to talk about a few other players in this Indian team and so I'm curious to hear your thoughts on them.
Speaker A:Let's start with the captain, Harman Preet.
Speaker A: back in: Speaker A:Do you agree with that sak?
Speaker C:100%.
Speaker C:I don't think it was a turning point in performance.
Speaker C: in drawing attention back the: Speaker C:So what happened in the middle of that innings was the, for the first time, the Women's World cup final would be played at Lords.
Speaker C:Lords was not given out for such things.
Speaker C:For the first time, the final would be played at Lords.
Speaker C:In the middle of that innings, the final of at Lords got sold out.
Speaker C:And Suprita Das has written a wonderful book called Free Hit, which is a story of Indian women's cricket and the history of it.
Speaker C:And the first chapter is dedicated to that knock and the aftershocks.
Speaker C:So there were people on the street just, you know, shocked that.
Speaker C:Hold on a second.
Speaker C:I mean, is this a woman absolutely tonking it?
Speaker C:Because that kind of power and that kind of, you know, kinetic energy of hitting we've almost exclusively associated with men's cricket.
Speaker C:We've given.
Speaker C:Even the most ardent fans of us have given women the credit for being skilled and very good at craft.
Speaker C:We hadn't associated power hitting like this, so that changed a lot.
Speaker C:But I will also make this one point and why it's important to kind of make that point.
Speaker C: In: Speaker C:The final was held in Eden gardens in Calcutta.
Speaker C:70,000 people came to watch.
Speaker C:Australia, New Zealand.
Speaker C:So this attention that is there is not new.
Speaker C:And I think it's being missed a little because we are caught up in that.
Speaker C:Okay, now we have attention.
Speaker C:No, attention was there.
Speaker C:It was not nurtured well enough.
Speaker C: Cut to: Speaker C:And that time, BCCI didn't even support women's cricket.
Speaker C:It was WCAI, Women's Cricket association of India.
Speaker C:BCCI did not want to associate itself with women's cricket.
Speaker C:And sorry for this tangent.
Speaker C:We.
Speaker C:I know we're talking about Herman breathing.
Speaker A:No, you're good.
Speaker C: But: Speaker C:Out of her endorsements, the BCCI was still not involved.
Speaker C:2005, India reached the World cup final.
Speaker C:That should have been an inflection point.
Speaker C:Did not happen.
Speaker C:2013, the World cup comes to India.
Speaker C:They play matches and they are like, okay, we need to train between matches.
Speaker C:BCCI by then has started associating itself with women's cricket.
Speaker C:So they're like, okay, we'll let you train.
Speaker C:Train with under 14 and under 16 boys of some Ranji teams.
Speaker C:They train, they reach the World cup final.
Speaker C:They were supposed to play at 1k day.
Speaker C:And Mumbai says, no, we are going to have Ranji match there.
Speaker C:You can't use the 1k day.
Speaker C:Days before a Ranji match, their game gets shifted to Brabant.
Speaker C:A World cup final venue gets shifted to let a Ranji game happen.
Speaker C:And you know, one of the major cricketers from Bombay cricket was playing in that Ranji match, as it turns out.
Speaker C: So: Speaker C:There was context to it.
Speaker C:India was building up to it.
Speaker C:Building up to it, building up to it.
Speaker C:And literally begging the bcci, we are not as bad as you think we are.
Speaker C:World Cup.
Speaker C:You can't reach multiple World cup finals if you're that bad.
Speaker C:We are decent.
Speaker C:We are not Australia.
Speaker C:To become an Australia, you need structural support.
Speaker C:So please give us that.
Speaker C:2017 changed and we still lag behind.
Speaker C: Harman Preeth, she's been in: Speaker C: She was there in the: Speaker C: She was there in: Speaker C:And that knock is, I think now with Jamie, one of the top three limited overs knocks played by an Indian.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And what are Your thoughts, Mike, what are your thoughts on Harman Preetz captaincy in this tournament?
Speaker B:Before I go to Herman Priest's captaincy, one other thing to note.
Speaker B:You know, Sarthak did a great job of pointing out all the places where there was, I guess, momentum.
Speaker B:There was everything in favor of supporting women's cricket, but it didn't happen.
Speaker B: ri Ramasan as late as I think: Speaker B: d said in I think, like early: Speaker B:And so you have all these figures.
Speaker B:So it's a cultural thing too, and which is extremely disappointing.
Speaker B: now, the BCCI, the body after: Speaker B:There's a lot of that.
Speaker B:And I think this is, this win is.
Speaker B:Will mean a lot to that as well because no longer will, you know, the people who just, you know, do it for the sexism, do it for, you know, the anti feminism, whatever they call it, you know, will they be able to say, well, they don't win anything.
Speaker B:So that is, I think, a big check for that reason.
Speaker B:And as much as, you know, I would have been proud of this team even if they didn't end up on the right side on the final.
Speaker B:I think it's, it really matters from that perspective.
Speaker B:And I think Harman Preet coming back to her, one of the things that, you know, I, I feel I've noticed over the years, having again watched women's cricket closely for five to seven years, is she's grown into the captaincy really well.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:She just has a really good measure of her team.
Speaker B:And you saw her talk about, you know, just calming herself down in the middle of the final.
Speaker B:You know, she just had her palms on her chest and just ready to watch.
Speaker C:It was, for a second, it was scary to watch because somebody clutching their chest is sorry for interrupting, but yeah.
Speaker B:Right, but, but yeah, it seemed like she was just calming herself down and then she, the fact that she had already had that conversation with Shefali to try somebody new who's basically not played a one day in a year and A bit or two years almost to give her the ball in an important final that had all been talked about.
Speaker B:So, you know, it's, it's really not just the on field presence of stay calm.
Speaker B:We've got this.
Speaker B:Getting the right bowling changes all that.
Speaker B:But it's also the backroom planning.
Speaker B:I think Sarthak touched on that a little bit, but they did obviously a great job.
Speaker B:And that's not just Herman Preet, but just everybody in the back room from the coaches, bowling coaches, everybody doing a great job.
Speaker B:Because she was again asked about this in the press conference and she said when they went up to Shefali Verma and said, hey, I might need you to bowl two, three overs, Shefali's response was, I'm ready to bowl 10.
Speaker B:And you know, that one shows how prepared and how mentally strong Shefali is.
Speaker B:But at the same time it shows that Harman Preeth was, you know, willing to take a risk.
Speaker B:And that is a lot.
Speaker B:When you have so much to play for that that is a big deal, the ability to take that risk.
Speaker B:So, yeah, credit to her for all the way she's led the team.
Speaker B:And I think even when things were not going their way in this World cup, when she came out to do press conferences and they were asked about the loss to England as an example, she was very aware of what they needed to do.
Speaker B:I think it was not a case of, you know, and we've seen this with the men's team all the time.
Speaker B:You know, if somebody asks a question to Shreya Sayer, why is he trying to improve on his bouncer?
Speaker B:Playing bouncers, he'll brush that away as if it's not a weakness.
Speaker B:We don't.
Speaker B:We didn't see that.
Speaker B:We saw a lot of, yes, we know, we're working on it.
Speaker B:And it was a lot of awareness and a lot of planning that went into it.
Speaker B:And obviously despite that, sometimes results don't show right away, but in this case, it all came together really well under her captaincy.
Speaker C:It's hard to change combinations in the middle of the World cup and, and Benny's point, like, and even yours, my UN.
Speaker C:The growth of Shift Harman PR's captaincy also reflects in the fact that this is her last ODI World cup, right, and this is home.
Speaker C:She's completely exposed to the scrutiny that's happening, the trolling that's happening.
Speaker C:So for her to be so brave about, okay, no, we need more bowling options.
Speaker C:Let's change the combination.
Speaker C:Let's send.
Speaker C:It was late, but she was willing to make that change in a virtual knockout against New Zealand.
Speaker C:That let's send Jimmy at 3.
Speaker C:So that also speaks to Harman PR being that kind of leader now, who says, not just, okay, I am your anchor.
Speaker C:She's gone from rock star to anchor.
Speaker C:I feel she used to be the rock star of the team.
Speaker C:The, you know, the electricity two I'm.
Speaker C:You guys do.
Speaker C:But if you guys at any time need me, I'm right there behind you.
Speaker C:But to make those changes in probably the two biggest matches of her life speaks a lot about the mental strength of the person.
Speaker C:Sharda Ogra was telling me on Monday that Harman Priest apparently got up and she, she told in the thing, the presser that she got up on the night of the final and she's like, we're going to win this.
Speaker C:It doesn't matter if we bat, if we bow.
Speaker C:What total South Africa put.
Speaker C:What total we put, we're going to win this.
Speaker C:You can't.
Speaker C:How do you analyze that?
Speaker C:What data points do you break that into when, when a pro athlete who's played at the top of the world game for so long, who's won WPLs, how do you, how do you argue with somebody waking up and saying, no, we're going to win this?
Speaker C:It, it's.
Speaker C: remember from, I think early: Speaker C:Well, they were talking about these insane cricketing moments in the 96 semi final in Calcutta, Sri Lanka were 1 for 2 and you're playing in front of 130,000 screaming Indians.
Speaker C:In walks Aranda de Silva.
Speaker C:And apparently he, he, before walking in, he had told the dressing room, I'm going to bash these guys and we're going to win the final.
Speaker C:So for, for pro athletes who to have that kind of confidence, it speaks to how prepared they are and the zone they've got themselves into.
Speaker C:We've now seen a reel where, you know, Amul Mazumdar says that for, for seven hours we make this our bubble and we step into it, we finish our job and only then do we walk out of the bubble.
Speaker C:It felt like he had created that bubble for this team a bit before the final.
Speaker C:It felt like the bubble was there leading into the New Zealand game, almost that from now on we play four World cup finals, execute them like four World cup finals and come out of it.
Speaker C:And Harman priests.
Speaker C:I mean, obviously the final is the Game.
Speaker C:But I think the semi final chase and the way Herman batted, we'll forget that soon because cricket will overwhelm us in a week again.
Speaker C:And we'll remember Jemmy's innings, but we'll forget Harman's.
Speaker C:I think Jimmy's.
Speaker C:Jemmy needed Harmon to play that innings there.
Speaker C:I don't think Jimmy's innings happens without Harman.
Speaker C:This is to.
Speaker C:Not to take anything away from Jemmy, she's played a blinder.
Speaker C:But for Harman to come with two down and say, we're going to win this, just do your thing.
Speaker C:Be the Durasil Bunny of the team.
Speaker C:I will be the rock.
Speaker C:We got this.
Speaker C:We will win this from here.
Speaker C:Dude, yes.
Speaker C:Dude, no.
Speaker C:Do you Australia bit here and there with their plans, short ground, good chasing ground, doesn't matter, man.
Speaker C:To play that innings in the semi final and that is a sign of a captain who's got everything under control and they want to control the final.
Speaker C:They're like, we'd rather reach 280, 290, then try and get 350 and get bowled out for 250.
Speaker C:So you play a final just to win the final, right?
Speaker C:Not to in quotes, follow a process.
Speaker C:So tremendous credit to her.
Speaker C:She was always going to be one of the figures in Indian women's cricket.
Speaker C:I think she's one of now the.
Speaker A:Figures in Indian cricket and that's an incredible legacy.
Speaker A:If this is truly her last World cup, as it was probably is, that's an incredible legacy to leave behind as the first Indian woman to lift the World Cup.
Speaker A:And you know, following up on what you said and that's the thing about being a destiny's child almost where destiny just grabs you and takes you along for the ride.
Speaker A:And I think that's just like what happened with her and this team.
Speaker A:You know, I haven't always been the biggest fan of Harman Preeth, the captain, you know, in, you know, sometimes her behavior in the, in the past few years, the way she kind of handles the opposition or even the umpires always rub me out the wrong way.
Speaker A:But this World cup she just seemed a more senior statesman, stateswoman, you know, just a leader who, you know, all her players are just like, we'll die on the field for you.
Speaker A:You know, like that kind of, you know, that's what she was inspiring among her teammates.
Speaker A:And you could see you can never question her passion.
Speaker A:You know, the way she just like let out her emotions during the semi final and then came back in the final and just was so clinical.
Speaker A:In the way she led the team and the calm that she essentially conveyed to the rest of her team, I think that was just great.
Speaker A:But now the question is, what's next for Indian women?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:What's the next generation of Indian women cricketers?
Speaker A:Who are the next stars?
Speaker A:Now we still have current ones.
Speaker A:Smriti Mandana Jamima played the knock of her life in the semifinal.
Speaker A:And there's Sree Charani.
Speaker A:There's Amanjat Kaur there.
Speaker A:You know, you can say so many players who are going to be playing a few more World Cups down the road.
Speaker A:Are there any players you're particularly excited about who are going to form?
Speaker C:I'm number one paying member of the Richa Ghosh fan club.
Speaker C:Richa Ghosh, of course, I am number one paying member.
Speaker C:No one's ahead of me.
Speaker C:I am right there.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker C:I legitimately think Richa and Shefali will bring us to stadiums over the next few years.
Speaker C:They have that kind of energy for to be 22.
Speaker C:I mean, imagine this.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:You're young, so you're not scarred.
Speaker C:I understand.
Speaker C:Being young also means that you come in fresh, you come in with energy.
Speaker C:You're in a semi final that's still hanging.
Speaker C:You're against the greatest team to have played this sport across genders.
Speaker C:The game's not done.
Speaker C:The game's still in balance.
Speaker C:She defends the first ball.
Speaker C:I think, who was it?
Speaker C:I think Ashley Gardner was coming round the wicket and she defended the first ball.
Speaker C:She looks at and she's like, don't worry about it.
Speaker C:The next ball's going for six.
Speaker C:The next ball went for six.
Speaker C:So I mean, you, you need to have this almost belief of a super superhuman to come and say, it doesn't matter if I'm 22, 23.
Speaker C:There is a very clear distinction between her ability to hit a ball and almost, I can say half the rest of the team where she needs to take power hitting lessons for the team that yo just start hitting sixes.
Speaker C:I am such a fan of Richard Ghosh.
Speaker C:I don't think she is the most developed keeper, but neither was Rishabh Pant.
Speaker C:And I'm going to draw that parallel because I do think there is a similar potential of by the time Richard Ghosh is 25, 26, she is the center point of this team because Shefali will have a career where she does well and then she doesn't do well.
Speaker C:And India need to make space for a maverick.
Speaker C:India need to make space for.
Speaker C:We want you as a maverick.
Speaker C:We want you to step out of the crease even as the keeper is standing up to the stumps, be that person.
Speaker C:So you are going to fail 5 times out of 10, 6 times out of 7 times out of 10, no problems, win us the rest of the three games.
Speaker C:Richa Ghosh is going to.
Speaker C:If you get her entry points right, she's going to do a 10 ball, 25 almost every other game.
Speaker C:And she's that kind of talent.
Speaker C:So, yeah, Richa Shree Charani will have a ridiculous career.
Speaker C:I don't think she bowled too many bad balls across the tournament.
Speaker C:I'm a fan of all these guys are also so young.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Amanjot is still 25.
Speaker C:I know Jenny has been around the block, but she's also just 25.
Speaker B:Yeah, I was gonna say, I think one of the advantages of, you know, I mean, I guess it's not really an advantage overall, but the advantage of having a limited structural support is there's not.
Speaker B:Not yet.
Speaker B:I'm sure there will be, but soon there will be millions and millions of girls lining up and trying to, to become cricketers.
Speaker B:Hopefully as more money, more support, all of that comes in.
Speaker B:But because it's less now, we see a lot of young players making it to the Indian team.
Speaker B:And what that means is they're going to have amazing exposure.
Speaker B:Like even the ones who did not make it to the team, somebody like Shankarpatl, you know, injuries and other things going on.
Speaker B:But she's won an IPL with RCP and, you know, so all of these players are so young and they have experience.
Speaker B:Some of them, I think Shankar Patil played the Caribbean Premier League, of course, number of players have played the hundred.
Speaker B:So all this experience at such a young age is going to mean that, you know, not just that they're going to be really solid in, you know, when they're 25, 26, whatever that peak is.
Speaker B:But also there's a lot of time for them to groom that next generation.
Speaker B: when she entered the team in: Speaker B:Julian Goswami was the captain and she did a really great job of teaching her cricket like to at that point.
Speaker B:Harman Preet, being so young, knew a few things, knew her skills, but didn't really understand the game, how to play our 50 overs.
Speaker B:All these details and all these getting into that right mindset and that's where somebody like Julin, with all her experience was instrumental.
Speaker B:And I think that is key too.
Speaker B:Like if you have a jamima who's what, 25 and has played 71 days, I believe or something like that.
Speaker B:So your 70 internationals at least.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:Just the experience that she's going to share with all the upcoming youngsters, I think that's going to go a long, long way for Indian cricket and all the budding cricketers.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I think a couple of names if I have to mention to add to Myan's point one is Pranti good.
Speaker C:We forgot to mention that in the list.
Speaker C:Tremendous bowler.
Speaker C:I think will improve only as time goes.
Speaker C:Right now she has a good line length that she wants to bowl, but if the pitch is not doing a lot, she can be a bit here and there.
Speaker C:But she's just 22.
Speaker C:This is her first six months of international cricket.
Speaker C:She made a debut in June.
Speaker C:Asha Shobna Joy.
Speaker C:I love watching.
Speaker C:She's a wonderful leg spinner.
Speaker C:She'll create waves.
Speaker C:I think Yastika Bhatia is great.
Speaker C:How do you fit her in into this now batting lineup?
Speaker C:I don't know but you're going to make space for a good player.
Speaker C:Pooja Vastrakar will come back.
Speaker C:Snehrana will play a big role.
Speaker C:I think there are.
Speaker C:It's not.
Speaker C:The good thing about this is it's not just this.
Speaker C:11 or 15 players will start playing a bit more as Reynoka Singh, you can tell that she's still recovering her fitness.
Speaker C:Renuka Singh was not at a fittest best.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So Arundhati Rarity comes in a bit.
Speaker C:So I think it's going to be a case of the Indian women's team having a pool of 20 to 20 players, I think who are all international cricket ready and, and to come back to the semi and the final.
Speaker C:The one thing I think we.
Speaker C:It's a parallel I can draw is the immediate effect of the IPL was that the players playing in the Indian men's senior team, especially the limited over formats, they just became a lot more prepared for the energy shifts in a game.
Speaker C:Like if a game got too tense, they were like, no worries.
Speaker C:We face this like a million times in front of screaming crowds.
Speaker C:We'll find.
Speaker C:We'll find our way through.
Speaker C:I think a lot of, not to deflect credit, but a lot of the mental kind of preparation also comes when you're hanging out with Meg Lanning in the same dressing room for two months every year.
Speaker C:That has to make a difference.
Speaker C:So this is just a, you know, a tremendous opportunity for WPL to go to at least six Teams, if not eight right away because the player pool is there, the Indian player pool is there.
Speaker C:You know, the senior one day trophy and the senior T20 trophies are throwing up.
Speaker C:Some like even Kiran Navigir, she's big, whacking it in the domestic competitions.
Speaker C:So you have to have them in, you have to have them in the pool.
Speaker C:Create a program within the NCAA that supports women cricket the same way and creates the same programs.
Speaker C: work that went into making a: Speaker C:Create that process, you will be structurally able to compete with Australia and England at a more regular level.
Speaker C:Else the risk is this could be.
Speaker C:If you don't do all this and you don't support the event with your backup, this will be a comet event and this will not be the start of something.
Speaker C:This will be a comment and you don't see, you don't know when you're going to see one next.
Speaker A:Mike.
Speaker A:I'm also coach.
Speaker A:I'm almost there.
Speaker A:This tournament has been fascinating to really observe the coaching or the backroom staff for each team and the character of the team.
Speaker A:Through the backroom staff, particularly the Indian team, you could see they were all so engaged.
Speaker A:Every time a wicket fell, everyone would exchange high fives and you know, there's a lot of note taking, there's a lot of like discussions in the dugout.
Speaker A:What is your take on Amal Mazumdar, the coach for this team?
Speaker B:I mean he's, he's obviously done a tremendous job and I think the best way to, you know, look at a coach, it's, it's, you know, obviously hard for us to judge a coach because one, there's no performance like in terms of him himself coming out and doing something.
Speaker B:Something.
Speaker B:So I always like to look at how players feel in their presence and that's where all the great coaches do really well.
Speaker B:Like they are known to create an environment which is going to create long term success.
Speaker B:Even if they had lost this final or the semifinal, the team was just mentally in a really good space and that, you know, obviously a lot of credit to Amol Mazumdar for that.
Speaker B:There's obviously all the other aspects of planning, hey, we want to Astrofali if he's come, if she's comfortable bowling and over in the final.
Speaker B:We want to make sure we, they try to switch up teams in the, in the middle of the World cup they switch Snay Rana and for the knockouts as well.
Speaker B:So they tried all these combinations and obviously those are all requiring planning and some of them did not even work out.
Speaker B:Like, I don't think, personally I didn't think Sne Rana Radha Yadav come swap was ideal.
Speaker B:But nonetheless, I think having all that planning, all that backroom work was critical.
Speaker B:But to me, like the coach, apart from fine tuning all those little details, trying different combinations, their key job is to create that environment where everybody feels happy.
Speaker B:And even for South Africa, for that matter, their coach, who's who was leading in this World cup, he's been leading only for nine months, I think, or 10 months, something like that.
Speaker B:And he has had, I think four or five titles with the men's Titans team.
Speaker B:So another really great coach.
Speaker B:And what people talked about was not just his knowledge about cricket, but the fact that he was just like a teddy bear in the dressing room.
Speaker B:People could joke around, people could give him a high five and talk to him openly and that created success over, you know, multiple years.
Speaker B:So I think in that aspect, both the coaches and I know you asked about Amol Majumdar, but really both the coaches have done an excellent job and hop.
Speaker B:You know, the one issue we've seen with women's cricket is a lot of changes and chopping and changes.
Speaker B:So hopefully what this pushes the BCCI to do is think more long term.
Speaker B:And when they find somebody of the like, of Amul Majumdar, they stick with him and they give him everything we need, you know, everything the team asks for.
Speaker B:Because even right now the team has asked for a psychologist and they've not been given one.
Speaker B:So hopefully those things will come to a pause and come to an end rather and we'll see more continuity.
Speaker A:I mean, nothing like a World cup went to get your demands met, right?
Speaker A:Like now you have all the credit you need.
Speaker C:One more thing.
Speaker C:Sorry, sorry.
Speaker C:Ben, go ahead with the next thing.
Speaker C:Can I add one more thing about Amor Mozambar?
Speaker C:So one of the things I was discussing with Mayank on our last pod was the reportage in this tournament and the various aspects of it.
Speaker C:And one of the very visible aspects was the kind of questions put to the team.
Speaker C:Yes, they were doing the reporting with a lot of tenderness, but when they were in press conferences, they were asking tough questions that, okay, why this, why that?
Speaker C:And always with a, with the right kind of tone and intention.
Speaker C:You can tell maybe it's a weird way to Judge, but you can tell a coach's kind of the environment when, when these questions were put.
Speaker C:Amol Mazuma not once.
Speaker C:And Mayank mentioned this briefly.
Speaker C:Neither Mazumdar, not Harman pr.
Speaker C:Harman PR was still a bit, you know, opaque to it, only slightly.
Speaker C:Amar was completely open.
Speaker C:He's like, okay, this is an issue.
Speaker C:We know, we have been working on it.
Speaker C:You know, can you help us with the strike rate?
Speaker C:You've been telling us about the strike rate, so maybe we'll do something about it.
Speaker C:That also kind of tells me how safe he felt himself in the job where he could openly discuss that about in a way him being vulnerable.
Speaker C:That I know that my team is not set up the right way.
Speaker C:And you see frames, right.
Speaker C:The first thing Harman did right after exalting, after the semi final chase was she went and hugged Amol Mazumdar.
Speaker C:It's important to.
Speaker C:It's important in a, you know, for men, male coaches, in a women's environment, especially in a country like India, which is history of how we treat women.
Speaker C:That said a lot of things about the environment Amon Mazumdar has created about the comfort and the safety and the feeling of being truly, you know, knowing that he has their back.
Speaker C:When the broadcaster spoke to Amol after the World cup win, he deflected everything to the players.
Speaker C:He took no credit and not as a way of saying that, okay, I don't want credit.
Speaker C:Every question put to him, he just said, okay, the ball, the players did well, Harman did this, Jamie did this.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:And he's been a good coach in Ranji Trophy as well, by the way.
Speaker C:So I think it should, it should give him a lot of street credit.
Speaker C:I completely agree with Mayank.
Speaker C:Keep Amul as long as he wants to keep him there.
Speaker C:Let him oversee the next generation.
Speaker C:Let them work.
Speaker C:Let Amol and the women's team create, you know, a long lasting sort of, I don't want to say empire, but you know what I mean?
Speaker C: yers who will continue in the: Speaker C:There is a clarity that comes from having the same coach again and again and repeating patterns and repeating things.
Speaker C:And I hope that bit of security is given to him because him, Aishkar, Salvi, all these guys, they have done a superb job.
Speaker A:You know, the one thing Harpreet did say after the final was that she wants the Indian team to now dominate in all the major tournaments going forward.
Speaker A:And I mean, India has the players now for it.
Speaker A:You know, everyone is in that right age range for a long career.
Speaker A:Lots of them have long careers ahead.
Speaker A:So it only makes sense to provide them all that they need.
Speaker A:But even as we look to the future, you do have to acknowledge the past.
Speaker A:And one of my favorite memories from the post final celebration was the team acknowledging, you know, the likes of Mithali Raj, Jalan Goswami, Anjum Chopra was there.
Speaker A:What was it for you, Sarthak, as a longtime follower of, you know, the game for the women's game, what was, what did it mean to you to see them acknowledged in that moment?
Speaker C:Everything, man, everything.
Speaker C:I have been to a women's game where, and this is after Julan's retired, where Julian has just come, sat inconspicuous.
Speaker C:And that said a bit about the crowd where they didn't recognize Julan, but she just sat inconspicuous, sat next to us and we had to do a double take.
Speaker C:That is this Julan and I, I went and asked that, hey, hi.
Speaker C:I'm surely mistaken, but you can't be Julan Goswami sitting amongst us.
Speaker C:And she's like, yes, I am.
Speaker C:So it meant everything.
Speaker C:And it said so much about the, about Harman and the rest of the team where they not only remembered the people who've come before.
Speaker C:Harman went and hugged Diana, Adalji and Shantarangaswamy, she gave the trophy also to Purnima Malhotra and she remembered the journalists who've covered this team for years.
Speaker C:She went and took the trophy to Anisha Ghosh who's done a superb job for years, almost alone.
Speaker C:There have been tours where she's been the only reporter at a press conference.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:And Anisha is one of the good ones where she doesn't want to touch the trophy.
Speaker C:So she wrote a long post saying, I did not want to have anything to do with it.
Speaker C:It's a players, it's the teams, it's their families.
Speaker C:It's not mine.
Speaker C:Keep me out of it.
Speaker C:I'm.
Speaker C:I want to have a picture with you.
Speaker C:But not while touching the trophy.
Speaker C:Harman almost forced her to hold the trophy.
Speaker C:That, no, this is yours as well.
Speaker C:Hold it.
Speaker C:We are going to have a picture clicked that says A.
Speaker C:And I tweeted that out yesterday.
Speaker C:And Anisha replied saying that, you know, it's not just Harman.
Speaker C:I mean, Harman's gesture was insane.
Speaker C:But Jamie, Smriti, Radha, Richard, they all remember the journalists, the people who've come and people who've done the thankless job of almost promoting this in court side thing to the mainstream audience, right?
Speaker C:It's a tough job in this country and it, it meant everything that Mithali and Anjumanjulan and I watched these three.
Speaker C:I've unfortunately not watched either Diana, Diana Adelji or Shantarangaswamy.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So I've watched these three and they were solid players.
Speaker C:Yeah, they were their super solid players.
Speaker C:Nithali was a ridiculous player.
Speaker C:She got a stand named after her in Vizag in the game I attend.
Speaker C:So BCCI called her over, they called the big boss over and they called somebody from the Telugu Dian party which is in Andhra Pradesh.
Speaker C:You call, we got something over, right?
Speaker C:And you would think that if you're renaming a stand after a player, the player gets to inaugurate.
Speaker C:So there on the dials there's a massive red button that they press for the garland curtains to part.
Speaker C:And you are, I'm looking from 20 meters away.
Speaker C:Mithali is standing right there.
Speaker C:I'm like, mithali, press the button.
Speaker C:Except Mithali is behind five men in that frame.
Speaker C:She's not even standing in front that someone else presses the button, she's behind them.
Speaker C:And big boss and the politician, they press the button.
Speaker C:It says it was Indian cricket at its most honest and at how they look at the Mithali Raj and Anjum Chopra and Yurang Goswami.
Speaker C:So for them to have this moment, you could see that Juran was completely overwhelmed.
Speaker C:And I promise you, all of us watching were overwhelmed.
Speaker C:You could not be dry eyed while watching that game.
Speaker C:If you watch them for any length of time it could be five years, seven years, 10 years.
Speaker C:It that moment it was almost like if West Indies were to win an ODI World cup trophy.
Speaker C:Today they take that trophy, the men's team, they take that trophy to a Brian Lara.
Speaker C:And because you always stand on the shoulder of giants and Indian Indian women's team, even though not supported, they have.
Speaker C:The current team can jog.
Speaker C:I won't say run, they're not allowed to run.
Speaker C:But the current team jogs because there have been people who've laid the bricks and these guys were the ones who laid the bricks.
Speaker C:And it meant everything to me that this team acknowledged them, that this is your moment as well.
Speaker A:You know, for the longest time the only, if anyone mentioned women's cricket to me, the only name I could think of was Mithali Raj because she was essentially like, you know, a contemporary of Sachin Tendulkar.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So at that time, all that I heard anyone say was like, Natalie Raj is like Sachin Tendulkar of like Indian women's cricket.
Speaker A:And she has records to back that up.
Speaker A:But we have come such a long way that now if you say women's cricket, like just Indian women's cricket, people can rattle off like seven, eight names and they still wouldn't have captured all the stars.
Speaker A:I mean, all these players, even pre World cup, became household names.
Speaker A:And I can only imagine what this World cup win will do.
Speaker A:In fact, that is the big question now because there's been a lot of ink, you know, spent on what this win means for Indian women's cricket and women's cricket in general.
Speaker A: n a lot of comparisons to the: Speaker A:And a lot of coach, a lot of commentators, cricket experts have said the same thing, that this woke up, this win is just going to turbocharge women's cricket in India.
Speaker A:What do you make of that statement and what do you see the impact of this World cup victory on women's cricket in general?
Speaker A:Both of you?
Speaker B:I'll go.
Speaker B:I don't know if I want to assume.
Speaker B:I, I mean, I heard all of that and I wanted to believe it, you know, as, as India 1.
Speaker B:Ian Bishop was on commentary and he said something very, you know, to the likes of what you were just mentioning, Benny, that this is going to turbocharge.
Speaker B:We have all these journalists writing wonderful columns about the victory, not just the final, but the semifinal, and how this will throw, give belief and girls all over the country will pick up a bat, pick up a ball and start playing.
Speaker B:And I want to believe all of that, but I do not want to assume.
Speaker B:So I do really hope that apart from, you know, what the BCCI does well is when such a win happens, they give prize money and all of these things.
Speaker B:Sure, that's, that's great.
Speaker B:But hopefully there's more long term investment and that is the, you know, the under 19 systems, the eight hours like, you know, have, which have been very successful with the men's team.
Speaker B:All of those come together, I know, under Raoul Dravid, when he was at the ncaa, which is, I think renamed to center of Excellence now, but he was at the nca, they started programs to teach to have like Formalized training for coaches, umpires, which included the women.
Speaker B:So I think those were already very good steps to have women coaches, women empires, but that should hopefully multiply now they have all the reason to do that.
Speaker B:So support the game holistically, not just in terms of making sure there's, you know, grounds available.
Speaker B:We're not moving, moving grounds because there's a Runji game.
Speaker B:You know, let's make sure we show them that they are a priority in every possible way, whether it's under 19, cricket, J cricket training, umpires, training coaches, all of this has to come together and I think only then we'll see that, you know, lasting legacy of this win.
Speaker B:Remember when, when 83 happened, I mean obviously I don't necessarily think it's an exact comparison.
Speaker B:It obviously is not.
Speaker B:You know, conditions were pretty different in 83, but the thing to remember then is of course India did well for, I would say two to three years.
Speaker B:84, they won a series in Australia.
Speaker B:85 was pretty good for them.
Speaker B:But then there was a, you know, they were not as good for a while.
Speaker B:You know, that dip started because even though they had a lot more money, a lot more investment, sometimes just the talent coming through wasn't as good or it was very city based.
Speaker B:A lot of Mumbai cricketers, Delhi cricketers, you know, Karnataka boys.
Speaker B:But it was limited to certain urban centers.
Speaker B: s, early: Speaker B:So if we really need to unpack and take Indian cricket, women's cricket to the next level, that is what we need to do to reach that grassroots.
Speaker B:The girls who don't have grounds nearby to play with because the ones in Mumbai who already love cricket are going to find a ground, the ones in Delhi are going to find an academy.
Speaker B:But the ones that are in smaller villages where it's, you know, culturally we talked about the culture of looking down on women's cricket or girls playing cricket, where that is still a challenge.
Speaker B:Hopefully that becomes easier, that, you know, obstacle goes away and only then we'll see that long term result.
Speaker C:Yeah, I also like along with this, I think it has to start with schools having women's cricket teams.
Speaker C:I don't think that's there everywhere.
Speaker C:That's where it starts.
Speaker C:Academies.
Speaker C:Pratika Rawal was the first entrant into, I think the AS was first female entrant in the Rota Cricket Academy.
Speaker C:Sorry, was it Rota somewhere.
Speaker C:Yeah, she was the first female entrant.
Speaker C:So I like you would hear this a lot as in terms of a marketing language of where clubs, when they set up football clubs and they set up youth academies, they say that we want to build a Messi.
Speaker C:You don't build a Messi.
Speaker C:You can't build a messy.
Speaker C:Messi is a celestial star.
Speaker C:Messi doesn't happen every generation.
Speaker C:Can you build an Iniesta?
Speaker C:Can you build a Carlos wheel that is like for.
Speaker C:Similarly in cricket you can't have a Tendulkar.
Speaker C:Tendulkar is Tendulkar because you know, he is that unique.
Speaker C:And being the biggest fan, I think if your structures are strong, you can make a VVS or something to that effect.
Speaker C:So I, I truly believe that if India as a cricketing administration can look beyond the cream that.
Speaker C:Okay, how many runs are they scoring in wpl?
Speaker C:No, how many are you empowering them to score?
Speaker C:Are you giving them the structural support for them to go into, you know, a game where opposite them Nat Silverbrandt is bowling and they know exactly how to handle this.
Speaker C:So for that a women's Ranji trophy has to happen.
Speaker C:The senior ODA senior one day and T20 trophy has to get a makeover.
Speaker C:The WPL has to get more teams.
Speaker C:NCA has to have, NCA has to have a division for women's cricket where everything that the development teams enjoy in men's cricket, every single thing has to be made available.
Speaker C:Because Ancharda made that point on tv.
Speaker C:She made that point to us.
Speaker C:BCCI is not the market.
Speaker C:The market is the market.
Speaker C:BCCI is the employer.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:So the employer has the absolute duty to give you, to set you up for success, to give you everything that they have.
Speaker C:Their the discrimination cannot happen anymore.
Speaker C:At a developmental level, you can make an argument that the day you make us X amount of money, we will reinvest a lot of that money.
Speaker C:That happens at a marketing level, at a development level, that argument just does not hold.
Speaker C:So you have to make everything available at the same degree, the same level of courses available.
Speaker C:You have to have a women's division.
Speaker C:I don't know if there is already in the MRF base academy and you know, some of the IPL teams are doing some stuff, but what something like Rajasthan Royals have for men's cricket in terms of how they work with younger players, they have a completely separate division where they work with youth cricketers, something like that has to come up.
Speaker C:So there is a long way to go.
Speaker C:I am on the same board as Mayank, where I want to absolutely believe it all.
Speaker C:I to quote Prem Panicker that one thing that will inevitably happen is a woman will pick A girl of 10 years old, 11 years old, will pick up a bat, stand in front of the mirror and tell her that she can be a cricketer.
Speaker C:Which was essentially the effect of 83.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:83 is not a match.
Speaker C:I think we, we've come very far for it to be just the match it's now recognized as, you know, the event that lit the touch paper for Indian cricket.
Speaker C:It was a movement.
Speaker C:This can be a movement.
Speaker C:But during 83, India was in a position where they could put their force behind cricket.
Speaker C:Now they have to put their force behind women's cricket and make it, you know, make it one of their priorities along with like men's cricket.
Speaker C:Women's cricket has to go together, give them the same respect.
Speaker C:And respect is not an advertising campaign saying cricket is everyone's game.
Speaker C:If you mean it, invest it, invest that amount.
Speaker A:I mean, it has to start with the change in the cultural mindset.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:I mean, a lot of the solutions you guys just talked about, very practical, real world examples.
Speaker A:But it's all for not if India, in terms of thinking about what women can do.
Speaker A:And of course, this is a larger conversation beyond sports.
Speaker A:But since we are restricting ourselves to cricket, first of all, the stigma of like girls playing any kind of sport or women playing sports at a professional level, just for the longest time, that just seemed like, why would they want to do it?
Speaker A:Like, you know, it was.
Speaker A:I mean, you can argue that India is a patriarchal society where there's very strong conventional beliefs of what a woman can and cannot do.
Speaker A:And just in the sphere of cricket, we've seen that being broken piece by piece.
Speaker A:Now, for all of the World cup wins, for all of the superstars that are arising, you still need regular Indian families saying it is okay for my girls to look at something beyond just studies or just beyond being a homemaker.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:If she wants to pursue sports, she can go for it.
Speaker A:She wants to play football, she wants to play cricket, tennis, whatever it be.
Speaker A:Yes, let's give her an opportunity.
Speaker A:And I think driving from that, you know, everything else will slowly fall in place.
Speaker A:And I think that's where the true impact of this World cup win is.
Speaker A:Because not only did India win the World cup, they won it in India in front of so many adoring fans and even the casual fans who just wanted to see India in a World cup final.
Speaker A:This wind goes beyond that and hopefully it's just like the first in this chain reaction of, you know, steps that will lead to essentially normalization of girls and women playing sports.
Speaker C:And we have to be patient, we have to be patient with the results where, right.
Speaker C:What we should demand immediately are the structures created.
Speaker C:Where are you enabling access to child women cricketers?
Speaker C:Are you creating structures for the age groups, I.e.
Speaker C:under 12s, under 15s, under 13s, whatever.
Speaker C:Are you creating structures where they can succeed?
Speaker C:Because if you truly break down and probably we don't have the time today, a lot of the success stories that have come in this World cup are against the tide, not with the tide.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:And yes, those are feel good stories and they make our heart swell.
Speaker C:But if that is the central running theme of your team, it's starting to saying a couple of things, right?
Speaker C:You don't want that to be everyone's story.
Speaker C:The theme story.
Speaker C:We would know Indian cricket has truly succeeded in making women's cricket a priority.
Speaker C:When every most stories are, yes, we may have started from a, you know, underprivileged background or something like that, but once we got into cricket we were well supported and we had everything in place and we could become the best version of ourselves.
Speaker C:Once you have that and that the, the demand for that has to start now.
Speaker C:That has to be immediate.
Speaker C:The continuous results of success where you are seeing Indian women being top two.
Speaker C:I don't think you can just by winning a World cup say you're as good as Australia women.
Speaker C:It's not going to happen overnight, right?
Speaker C:But can you be top two?
Speaker C:Can you if on the day that you come third behind England, can you come third by a smidge rest of the time can you be top two?
Speaker C:Can you play now a brand of cricket that makes us feel, oh yeah, this is the team to watch.
Speaker C:That will take time.
Speaker C:I do not think we should expect that right away.
Speaker C:A World cup does not change cricketers as a thing.
Speaker C:So that may take time.
Speaker C:But the structures have to start coming up right now.
Speaker C:That equal pay nonsense, I mean people who, a lot of people see through it.
Speaker C:They halved the prize money that they gave the men's team for winning the T20 World Cup.
Speaker C:They halved that prize money for the women's team that just won the 50 over World Cup.
Speaker C:That happens once in four years.
Speaker C:There is no logic for that because this is not a market evaluation, right?
Speaker C:The BCCI has a lot of money.
Speaker C:They can give 125 crores like they gave to the men's team.
Speaker C:They chose to give 51 that's a choice that's not being forced by anybody.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:And those choices will remain.
Speaker C:Like, Benny, you said that, you know, that would.
Speaker C:That's a.
Speaker C:More.
Speaker C:That choice is driven by the cultural stigma of, okay, you won, we are very happy.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker C:Yeah, but the.
Speaker C:But the structures on ground, they have to start now.
Speaker B:And I think the other kind of tied to what Sarthak was just saying was, is the expectations.
Speaker B:Now.
Speaker B:Now the downside of a win is there's going to be tremendous expectations and all the naysayers are going to be louder the next time they fail.
Speaker B:Which.
Speaker B:Which they will.
Speaker B:You know, they're human.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:Which is not necess bad.
Speaker A:Well, not the naysayers, but.
Speaker A:Sorry to interrupt, but the naysayers part, yes, I agree, but I think there should be a fair critique of the players.
Speaker A:There's a space.
Speaker A:You cannot patronize them, you know, Absolutely.
Speaker A:Now that mindset has to change as well.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:No, that I think I definitely agree.
Speaker B:And to Sak's point, I think some of those questions, hard questions, were already coming in this World cup.
Speaker B:So I don't think that is something that's not happening.
Speaker B:What I mean by the naysayers is, you know, the Moment There's a T20 World cup next year, it's going to be in England now as well as they've done today and this last past week.
Speaker B:The truth is, like, Australia and England at home will be very tough sides to beat in that T20 World Cup.
Speaker B:So when we don't make that final, if we don't make that final or if we don't win that World cup, there will be all these people saying, well, we should pull funding from women's cricket.
Speaker B:Like, there will be those voices.
Speaker B:This culture change is not going to happen in one year or two years.
Speaker B:So that is exactly where, you know, hopefully the organizers stand tall and say, nope, we're gonna back our people.
Speaker B:And, And I think there's, like, Australian cricket is, of course, you know, the, the, the standard to look at because they have been winning World Cups.
Speaker B:In the women's game, they won seven.
Speaker B:But even when they had won, I think four or five, they, at that point, they decided, you know, we're not investing enough, and they decided to invest $35 million more into the women's game.
Speaker B:Now, the women's game is not selling 80,000 tickets, you know, every time or any of that.
Speaker B:So there's, there's not.
Speaker B:They understand the ROI on that is not exactly in, you know, number of T shirts sold or number of Tickets sold or TV rights all the time.
Speaker B:But they understand it's the right thing to do and it's, it's the right thing to do for the longer term and eventually that ROI will come.
Speaker B:So that, that long term thinking needs to, needs to be, you know, kept in mind for anybod who's just looking at the business side of things.
Speaker A:If there's anything that the Indian women and Indian women's cricket has been good at over the last 10, 15 years, it's like steadily and continuously proving the naysayers wrong.
Speaker A:You know, even when the WPL began, people were saying, you know, there's not enough quality players or enough depth to make this work.
Speaker A:And that's clearly been proven wrong just by the amount of players who have come, who have come up and are shining on the international stage.
Speaker A:And same thing with the World cup win.
Speaker A:You know, I mean people, including myself at certain points, I was always just waiting for the moment where India would just kind of lose their nerve and let go of a winning position.
Speaker A:But they've, you know, kind of, they have shown improvement in that front as well.
Speaker A:So if there's anyone to place a bet on to prove the naysayers wrong, I think it would be the Indian women's cricket.
Speaker C:The strength of your belief will show in how much you back them when they are performing badly.
Speaker C: Prior to the: Speaker C:They lost eight out of eight games.
Speaker C:Then they went to the World cup with a very similar team.
Speaker C:There weren't some radical changes in the team.
Speaker C:The World cup was in Australia.
Speaker C:They went to the very similar teams and they won every game until the quarterfinals.
Speaker C:Then they lost in the semi finals to Australia.
Speaker C:And the amount of support that was given to that team, young team that okay, no go, go play the World cup, that will show how much do you believe.
Speaker C:Are you backing success or are you backing a sport?
Speaker C:If you're backing success, you're going to pour in money today, not like Mayank said, not pour in money tomorrow.
Speaker C:And you can't guarantee success in sport.
Speaker C:Even the best teams don't always win.
Speaker C:So I hope for India to become, and not culturally like we were talking about, you know, how women are looked at.
Speaker C:There's a conversation to have be had about how sport is looked at because Indian administration's investment happens at the top.
Speaker C:They don't, it doesn't happen at the bottom, it doesn't happen bottom up.
Speaker C:If something great happens, it happens at the Top and some stuff trickles down.
Speaker C:My only hope here is that the investment is not that we will pour more money into a WPL franchise.
Speaker C:It doesn't work that way.
Speaker C:To build good cricketers you have to invest bottom up and over time, over 10 years, over 15 years, you will have a result similar to what the MRF base academy for men has produced.
Speaker C:Where India now don't have to worry about fast bowling.
Speaker C:It's taken time.
Speaker C: It didn't happen in so: Speaker C:It didn't happen in 90 or 91 or 92.
Speaker C:You saw the results once as Zaheer Khan and Ashish Naira and all these guys started coming in and you suddenly saw good quick bowlers, physically strong and you're like okay, this is different to what we've seen before 20 years later from that are you getting a Shami, Siraj and Bumra.
Speaker C:So it will happen in phases but you have to set up that academy there and then and you have to support without expecting results immediately.
Speaker C:As long as you're doing that over time, we'll be okay.
Speaker C:But if you only support success, this is going to be short lived.
Speaker A:Yeah, I, I choose to be optimistic I think.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Good times ahead, good at better times ahead.
Speaker A:Listen, I, I think we barely scratched the surface.
Speaker A:We haven't even talked about other teams, the other players, Larva, Wolverine Cap, the Australian team's uncharacteristic stumble in the semi final.
Speaker A:England, New Zealand and so on.
Speaker A:And even Pakistan and Bangladesh for that matter who put up some really good performances as well even if it didn't translate to wins.
Speaker A:But we're almost out of time.
Speaker A:I do want to end on a very good note which is I know we have talked about a lot about the Indian woke up when you know certain memories from that.
Speaker A:But what are your favorite memories from this World Cup?
Speaker A:Be it a performance or some image image that you, you saw during this tournament.
Speaker A:And it doesn't have to be India, it could be some other team as well.
Speaker A:If you guys need a moment to think, I'll go first because this is on the top of my mind.
Speaker A:I think one of the memories that will stick with me for a really long time.
Speaker A:And this is personal.
Speaker A:You know I watched the World cup final with my 5 year old and 3 year old, both girls and they, they know that I'm obsessed with cricket, they know that I do podcasts.
Speaker A:They've actually learned the word podcast which is really weird hearing from a five year old.
Speaker A:But they, you know my five year old will always ask like, are the, are the girls playing?
Speaker A:I want to watch the girls play cricket.
Speaker A:And when we watch, forget the game itself, like the post match, like the celebrations or lifting the trophy, like my 5 year old whose attention span, you know, like it's like within three minutes she's like, okay, let's watch this cartoon instead or she wants to do go and dance or you know, just whatever it is.
Speaker A:She just sat just enthralled just by the celebrations and the trophy lifting.
Speaker A:She was so concerned about Pratika Raul.
Speaker A:She was like, why is that girl in a wheelchair?
Speaker A:Like, what is wrong with her?
Speaker A:You know?
Speaker A:So she was so into it, she was so engaged and all she could like think and talk about for the rest of that day was just like cricket, which for me it just fills my heart because it's like I've been obsessed with this game for like 20, 25 years now.
Speaker A:And here my daughter is like, even if it's for a short span of time, I don't know if this will continue, but for the short span of time, like she shares in that passion.
Speaker A:So for me that's going to stick with, stick around for a long time.
Speaker A:As memorable as India winning the World cup was that I got to share it with my five year old daughter.
Speaker A:So that's one of my favorite memories.
Speaker B:It's going to be hard to follow that one.
Speaker B:Benny, you should have gone last.
Speaker B:What I will say is mine is less personal, but I think it's from the semifinal.
Speaker B:The one thing I remember from that chase very clearly and I think I'll remember for a long time is how in control they were.
Speaker B:And the visual that really reminds me of that is Jemima.
Speaker B:Every time they scored a boundary, then took a couple or took a single, she would go to the other end and tell her partner a thumbs up and it was like, yep, we're done for this over.
Speaker B:We've got enough, we've got seven, we've got eight of this over.
Speaker B:And that just stuck with me.
Speaker B:That was like my moment of wow, this team is really in control.
Speaker B:And yeah, I think that's the one that I'll never forget.
Speaker C:Yeah, I think we are going to be India biased in our like because of how, because the emotional ride it has happened.
Speaker C:Right, started with a bit of hope.
Speaker C:None of us thought of a World cup win, then it kind of dipped that.
Speaker C:Are we even making the semis?
Speaker C:And then the high of the semi final and the final, I think it'll be hard to ever forget the Semi final chase.
Speaker C:I. I can foresee myself forgetting parts of the first innings.
Speaker C:I don't think I'll ever forget parts of the second innings.
Speaker C:Jemmy's chase, Harman's, that cover drive six.
Speaker C:Wow, man.
Speaker C:If I do have a personal listing, I'm cautious of inserting myself into this conversation.
Speaker C:But one of the, One of the comments on a recent essay, I think the World cup finalists itself was that I watched the World cup final because after reading your stuff, and that is the highest compliment, no amount of well written can make up for that.
Speaker C:So I think that was very gratifying that a lot more people were watching and in any way, if we could get one more person to watch and share that experience with us, that's job done.
Speaker C:So, yeah, personally it was that.
Speaker C:But otherwise, I think all our memories will have that like, India jersey in it.
Speaker C:But I want to mention Marufakhtar.
Speaker C:I think she lit up.
Speaker C:Every time I watch Marufakhtar, I. I felt that that's a special bowler.
Speaker C:I would, I would pay a lot of money and I'll travel a long distance to go watch them.
Speaker C:Alana King.
Speaker C:I'll travel anywhere in the world to watch, man.
Speaker A:Well, I think on that note, we'll wrap it up and you know, if I can have the last word on this.
Speaker A:You know, over the last 25 years of watching cricket, you know, I've been on so many highs, like emotional highs, and it's almost always with Indian cricket or Indian men's cricket specifically.
Speaker A: I think: Speaker A:But for most part, it has always been India related and for the first time ever, I felt that watching women's cricket.
Speaker A:And I think that's a testament to this team, the Indian women's team, for the ride they took us on and the promise of what's up ahead.
Speaker A:So exciting times ahead and I can't wait to see what's next, what the future holds for this team and for women's cricket in general.
Speaker A:On that note, thank you guys so much for joining.
Speaker A:Mike, thanks as always.
Speaker A:And of course, Sarthak, thank you so much for coming back on short notice.
Speaker A:I know you're in demand, I know you're very busy, but glad that we got to talk with you again.
Speaker C:Thank you so much for having me, guys.
Speaker C:Always nice to be here.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:And to our listeners, please do check out Sartuk and Mike's substacks.
Speaker A:We'll put up the links in our show notes, but otherwise, thank you for listening and we'll talk to you soon.
